RE: Volkswagen Golf R 400

[Carl_Docklands]

IMO this is a car you buy when you already have a Porsche, a de-badged smaller car which is more frugal on the old juice, which is a bit more stealthy and does not make you feel like you are short-changed when you drop the right foot.

New Golf R owners must be smarting about the exhausts being placed back in the 'correct' place though, it was a big design mistake for VW to move back to the quad tip look, it does not look anywhere near as good.

[aka_kerrly]

Crafty_ said:

So because porsche do it its ok for VW?

You do realise Volkswagen AG are the most profitable car manufacture in the world....I think it's fair to say they know what they are doing.

Outside of the UK the car will vary in price a fair bit, it certainly won't cost £50,000 in America for instance, as an example the MSRP for a Golf GTI in the US is $24,395 circa £14,500 versus the UK list price of £26,130

[Clivey]

aka_kerrly said:

What's irritating is that one the one hand you are convinced the car you have not driven won't handle due to the position of it's 4 cylinder engine yet you say to improve the car the engineers should fit a 5 cylinder engine!!

I'm saying "To lift the car above being another generic hatch, they should fit the 5-pot in the "right" place." I know that's not possible with this platform, which is why I wouldn't use it for an AWD car with sporting pretensions. We've already been though this several times.

aka_kerrly said:

That's not to say that I don't agree with you Clivey, the 5 cylinder would add the extra something the Golf needs. In my world it would have a turbo'd VR6 engine but the C***S at Brussels would have a fit.

I know what you mean...but the economy & emissions figures from the 5-pot aren't bad at all, especially considering the performance. I'd really like to see a new Quattro based on a shortened Audi A5 and with that engine - as in the 2010 concept.

To be honest, all of the 5-pot engines are interesting...even the Golf V5 (when was the last time you saw one of those?).

[Crafty_]

aka_kerrly said:

You do realise Volkswagen AG are the most profitable car manufacture in the world....I think it's fair to say they know what they are doing.

Outside of the UK the car will vary in price a fair bit, it certainly won't cost £50,000 in America for instance, as an example the MSRP for a Golf GTI in the US is $24,395 circa £14,500 versus the UK list price of £26,130

If they know what they are doing how come the previous S3 was seen as a poor car by most ?
VW EOS ? remember them ? no, most other people don't either.
Mk5 rust problems in front wings
Mk6 cam chain tensioner issues
2.0 TFSI chocolate piston rings/pistons

Just a few examples - they don't always get it right. VAG are a triumph of marketing more than anything else.

How is the US price relevant in any way
Cars are cheaper there, this is not news and means nothing for UK/Europe prices.

[zeduffman]

Clivey said:

WCZ said:

in a brief conversation with a vw dealer I was informally told it's expected to be around £45k

Ouch.

If that's the case, the "regular" R for looks much better value. I could kind of understand if the 400 used a tuned 5-pot from the RS3 or something a little more special...but that is a lot of money for something like this.

I dunno, you can use man maths to get around it. You get a 400hp hatchback with a warranty, wider track and body, those Recaros wouldn't be cheap if you retrofitted them (weren't they a £2600 option on the Mk6?), and I suspect some extra equipment will come as standard. 0-60 in 3.9 is worth something too. Add on the mandatory premium if it is limited edition, and you get your £45k. If you don't want all that, then clearly this car isn't for you, which is why the R is there.

I don't see why it being a 4-pot is instantly a bad thing. If you can get silly performance from an engine that is already produced in massive numbers, isn't it kind of smart to make use of it?

[aka_kerrly]

Crafty_ said:

aka_kerrly said:

You do realise Volkswagen AG are the most profitable car manufacture in the world....I think it's fair to say they know what they are doing.

Outside of the UK the car will vary in price a fair bit, it certainly won't cost £50,000 in America for instance, as an example the MSRP for a Golf GTI in the US is $24,395 circa £14,500 versus the UK list price of £26,130

If they know what they are doing how come the previous S3 was seen as a poor car by most ?
VW EOS ? remember them ? no, most other people don't either.
Mk5 rust problems in front wings
Mk6 cam chain tensioner issues
2.0 TFSI chocolate piston rings/pistons

Just a few examples - they don't always get it right. VAG are a triumph of marketing more than anything else.

How is the US price relevant in any way
Cars are cheaper there, this is not news and means nothing for UK/Europe prices.

You got there in the end. I never said anything about VAG quality or how good the products are. What I did say is they know what they are doing, running a highly profitable company! That may well be purely based on marketing combined with a effective pricing strategy and trying to fill every bloody niche they can find/create.

[Clivey]

zeduffman said:

I dunno, you can use man maths to get around it. You get a 400hp hatchback with a warranty, wider track and body, those Recaros wouldn't be cheap if you retrofitted them (weren't they a £2600 option on the Mk6?), and I suspect some extra equipment will come as standard. 0-60 in 3.9 is worth something too. Add on the mandatory premium if it is limited edition, and you get your £45k. If you don't want all that, then clearly this car isn't for you, which is why the R is there.

I know it's capable but for £45k I wouldn't want to be driving something that still feels like a FWD Golf*, albeit a fast one, to drive.

* Which is how Owen Mildenhall described the standard 'R' in the Auto Express test (the one where it was beaten by the Cupra 280).

zeduffman said:

I don't see why it being a 4-pot is instantly a bad thing. If you can get silly performance from an engine that is already produced in massive numbers, isn't it kind of smart to make use of it?

Oh it definitely makes good business sense and there are some pretty nice 4-pots...it's just that character-wise, the ones in question are somewhat lacking. Again; for £45k, surely you'd want something a little more out of the ordinary?

[Driver101]

Is nobody actually fed up to the core talking about Golfs?

Ever car forum I'm on it's Golf,Golf, Golf and it really is getting old.

Without a doubt it is a good hatch, but the way people go on about it I'm left thinking that too many people are seeing it for far more than it is.

VW/Audi really have their customers kissing their arses to scary levels.

Owning a VW or Audi is a bit like a die hard football team supporter. Completely biased and get on well in their own group. They just grind the gears of other people having to listen to their constant one dimensional chat.

[RoverP6B]

45k? They're having a laugh at that sort of money!

[hondansx]

aka_kerrly said:

You do realise Volkswagen AG are the most profitable car manufacture in the world....I think it's fair to say they know what they are doing.

Outside of the UK the car will vary in price a fair bit, it certainly won't cost £50,000 in America for instance, as an example the MSRP for a Golf GTI in the US is $24,395 circa £14,500 versus the UK list price of £26,130

Whilst you are correct, in fairness the US got the last R in poverty spec, and could not access the range of options that European buyers could either.

[hondansx]

ORD said:

hondansx said:

I'd pay for £50k for a Golf because I look at what requirements i need from a car and base my decision on what cars can meet those requirements.

I personally don't have an issue driving a mega Golf. Mr Porsche driver might though when he gets dusted!

Sure. Because a guy who can afford to drive a Porsche and loves his car is going to be so upset that someone else is driving a hot hatch... Nobody spends £70k-£100k on a Porsche to be the fastest thing on the road, mostly because they aren't teenagers and have heard of the GTR.

I used to have M3s, 911s et al 'try it on' when i was in my Golf, so i'd say you were wrong. Perhaps we're not all as sensible as you

[zeduffman]

Clivey said:

I know it's capable but for £45k I wouldn't want to be driving something that still feels like a FWD Golf*, albeit a fast one, to drive.

* Which is how Owen Mildenhall described the standard 'R' in the Auto Express test (the one where it was beaten by the Cupra 280).


Oh it definitely makes good business sense and there are some pretty nice 4-pots...it's just that character-wise, the ones in question are somewhat lacking. Again; for £45k, surely you'd want something a little more out of the ordinary?

I think I could live without a 5-pot or 6-cylinder if it means getting a compromise I like. The Cupra is more track-focused and has the tricky diff from the GTI Performance Pack so it's no surprise it handles better, but then you lose the 4WD that helps when things get damp. The R 400 is a car I could own for years and it would do everything I ask from it, in any weather, in any mood.

[zeduffman]

Driver101 said:

Is nobody actually fed up to the core talking about Golfs?

Ever car forum I'm on it's Golf,Golf, Golf and it really is getting old.

Without a doubt it is a good hatch, but the way people go on about it I'm left thinking that too many people are seeing it for far more than it is.

VW/Audi really have their customers kissing their arses to scary levels.

Owning a VW or Audi is a bit like a die hard football team supporter. Completely biased and get on well in their own group. They just grind the gears of other people having to listen to their constant one dimensional chat.

Part of the problem is the number of people going on about how boring they are and insulting anyone who dares drive them

[Crafty_]

zeduffman said:

Part of the problem is the number of people going on about how boring they are and insulting anyone who dares drive them

..and the other part is owners telling us they are the best car ever...

[zeduffman]

Crafty_ said:

..and the other part is owners telling us they are the best car ever...

That's true, you don't get that at all with other marques.

[Kenny Powers]

Driver101 said:

Is nobody actually fed up to the core talking about Golfs?

Ever car forum I'm on it's Golf,Golf, Golf and it really is getting old.

Without a doubt it is a good hatch, but the way people go on about it I'm left thinking that too many people are seeing it for far more than it is.

VW/Audi really have their customers kissing their arses to scary levels.

Owning a VW or Audi is a bit like a die hard football team supporter. Completely biased and get on well in their own group. They just grind the gears of other people having to listen to their constant one dimensional chat.

You're aware that VW is planning to put a 400hp 4WD hot hatch into production? Is this old news??

[Johnnytheboy]

RoverP6B said:

45k? They're having a laugh at that sort of money!

Let's see if it sells.

[lamboman100]

hondansx said:

ORD said:

hondansx said:

I'd pay for £50k for a Golf because I look at what requirements i need from a car and base my decision on what cars can meet those requirements.

I personally don't have an issue driving a mega Golf. Mr Porsche driver might though when he gets dusted!

Sure. Because a guy who can afford to drive a Porsche and loves his car is going to be so upset that someone else is driving a hot hatch... Nobody spends £70k-£100k on a Porsche to be the fastest thing on the road, mostly because they aren't teenagers and have heard of the GTR.

I used to have M3s, 911s et al 'try it on' when i was in my Golf, so i'd say you were wrong. Perhaps we're not all as sensible as you

Whether anyone admits it or not, there is secretly nothing worse in car-ownership land than seeing your expensive car beaten in a race by a cheap car.

There are going to be a lot of pi**ed-off Pork, Aston and other drivers in the coming years when they watch helplessly as a lowered Golf with a Halfords-like bodykit inches past them on a dual carriageway

[ORD]

lamboman100 said:

Whether anyone admits it or not, there is secretly nothing worse in car-ownership land than seeing your expensive car beaten in a race by a cheap car.

There are going to be a lot of pi**ed-off Pork, Aston and other drivers in the coming years when they watch helplessly as a lowered Golf with a Halfords-like bodykit inches past them on a dual carriageway

Who uses full bore acceleration on a DC in any of these cars?! If I dropped my right foot on a DC, I would be at licence-losing speeds within about 5 seconds. Get real - all of these cars have far too much outright pace for that to matter at all as contrasted to handling and the fun factor. If you want a fast car, buy a used GTR and be happy that you have pretty much the fastest thing on the road. For what that's worth!

[epom]

Johnnytheboy said:

RoverP6B said:

45k? They're having a laugh at that sort of money!

Let's see if it sells.

Exactly something tells me VW have a fair idea what they are doing despite not taking all of the superb advice available on here.