Porsche build quality
Discussion
cjb1 said:
I wonder how TVR get around it, or Lotus even?
The interesting thing about consumer law is that it puts the onus of responsibility on the RETAILER and not the manufacturer - and retailers for those cars tend to be 'seasoned' at this sort of thing ;0Anyone who's had a problem car will know how hard it can be to get help - the dealers blame the manuf, the manuf says it's not their issue and you get kicked-around. You could wheel-in the legal people but that will cost a lot of money - trading standards have limited clout - most of these things end one of 3 ways
1 - lucky repair fixes issues or owner "puts up with them"
2 - owner gives-up and sells car (then becomes someone else's problem)
3 - group of owners get together, publicise issue, manuf. steps-in to shut-them-up with one-off "goodwill"
and there's a term I hate - "goodwill". They told me I got a courtesy car as "goodwill" - they told me they replaced parts as "goodwill". Problem was, THEY made and sold a s
t car - a car which would 'immobilize' on the move, a car with a gearbox which ate itself twice in 20K miles, brakes which ate themselves (discs and pads) in 8K miles, a car which "pinked" constantly, a car which are far from 'fit for the purpose'. It wasn't "goodwill", it was "less than they legally owed me by a country fking mile".In other news, I passed a man who, alongside his passenger, was staring at his Range last night - wondering why the back-end was 'on the bumpstops' and the front was 'way up high'. I heard expressions like "quality product which this should not happen to" and "it's been back 8 times and they've not resolved it".
I chuckled...
In other news - I always thought it was just bad luck, but when I worked in the bodyshop we did a few Porsches and EVERY SINGLE ONE developed a fault whilst we had it.
Roofs would jam (or just refuse to open/close) - cars would refuse to start - warning lights would randomly come on (remember, these cars often stand-around awaiting repair for a while) - I think I pushed more Porsches out of the workshop than anything else (tho RX8s run them close - they seem to have a AA battery rather than a car one!?)
Roofs would jam (or just refuse to open/close) - cars would refuse to start - warning lights would randomly come on (remember, these cars often stand-around awaiting repair for a while) - I think I pushed more Porsches out of the workshop than anything else (tho RX8s run them close - they seem to have a AA battery rather than a car one!?)
Forums tend to be filled with all those with negative experiences seeking advice or a place to vent and those with good experiences tend not to promote it given they have no issues - so, allow me to say: I am thoroughly enjoying mine, the build quality is as good as any car I've ever owned and most of the car's I've owned have never given me any problems whatsoever. 
jayemm89 said:
Overall most German cars, even modern ones, are built much better than other brands I have experienced.
Not in my experience. Had problems with BMW, Audi, Mercedes and Porsche.
Best built "German" car I ever had was a BMW X5 ( made in the USA ) and a Mini Cooper S ( made in Oxford).
Even then, none of them have gotten anywhere near my Swindon-made Honda CRV in terms of deep-down quality where the oily bits are concerned. The Honda refuses to die inspite of being neglected.
There is a lot more to actual, deep down engineering integrity than a soft-touch dashboard.
If anything, German designed cars use their excellence in soft touch plastics and damped switch gear etc, to provide a veneer of perceived quality that simply does not exist deep down under the shiny bits.
toppstuff said:
If anything, German designed cars use their excellence in soft touch plastics and damped switch gear etc, to provide a veneer of perceived quality that simply does not exist deep down under the shiny bits.
IMO few people "want" a "German car". They simply want a "good car". And a lot of good cars have come from Germany/German companies in recent times.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Shhhh!! Don't encourage the riff-raff to buy them! 
Too late...I bought one!I think for whatever reason, proportionally Porsche probably just make quite a few more lemons/Friday afternoon cars than they used to. Perhaps if they had been a bit crapper in years gone by people may be more tollerant!!
Ozzie Osmond said:
toppstuff said:
If anything, German designed cars use their excellence in soft touch plastics and damped switch gear etc, to provide a veneer of perceived quality that simply does not exist deep down under the shiny bits.
IMO few people "want" a "German car". They simply want a "good car". And a lot of good cars have come from Germany/German companies in recent times.
Having said that, I am close to pulling the trigger on a new Audi S3, so I may eat my words.
I still don't trust the shiny-shiny though: the tight shut lines and the soft and pleasing interiors. I can't can't rid of the feeling that I am being conned by the outward niceness and that, somehow, it is being used to cover up cost cutting underneath.
Too often I have had a very "nice" German car only to find it has numerous electrical gremlins ( Mercedes) , a fundamental design flaw in the gearbox ( Audi CVT) and serial RMS failures and assorted irritants
(Porsche).
IME Japanese cars tend to be made in the opposite way. They spend all of their time looking at suppliers standards, production techniques, longevity of components etc, only to leave the actual appearance of the car and the soft bits until the end. German cars in my woeful experience, seem to focus on the pleasing bits first, how they drive second, and how well they are made, third. Probably won't stop me buying them though !
But thats just me. YMMV.
Coolbanana said:
Forums tend to be filled with all those with negative experiences seeking advice or a place to vent and those with good experiences tend not to promote it given they have no issues - so, allow me to say: I am thoroughly enjoying mine, the build quality is as good as any car I've ever owned and most of the car's I've owned have never given me any problems whatsoever.
Please. Be patient.
Ozzie Osmond said:
IMO few people "want" a "German car". They simply want a "good car". And a lot of good cars have come from Germany/German companies in recent times.
It's not so much the faults, maybe the odd lemon can slip through as with any product. The problem here is yet another example of s
t customer care from Porsche to put things right. Paddymcc said:
Never understood this famed build quality. Musy be an urban myth.
This became famous when the 911 was often pitted against rivals from Ferrari and Maserati, neither of which required more than a shower to have the wheels seemingly faling off and the bodyshells crumbling in your hands (so the legend states). In the days of rare car finance, these expensive 'toys' were equally rare to see and all were expensive. So in that company, the 911 was comparitavely bullet proof.Hence the legend began. Then they became volume cars and compared to Jap daily drivers they aren't bullet proof and I'd wager that Ferrari and Maserati of the same modern era are no better nor worse than Porsche.
Coolbanana said:
Forums tend to be filled with all those with negative experiences seeking advice or a place to vent and those with good experiences tend not to promote it given they have no issues - so, allow me to say: I am thoroughly enjoying mine, the build quality is as good as any car I've ever owned and most of the car's I've owned have never given me any problems whatsoever.
Negative bias is unavoidable when it comes to consumer issues - people just don't go out and shout about things "which just work" - and they shouldn't, of course, because that's what things are supposed to do!One of the problems when trying to parse all the negativity is to remember that a car which is "AOK" does not balance-out another car which is "a nightmare" - in fact 1000 'aok' cars won't balance that out.
A common 'theory' for issues like this (certainly I've heard it MANY times re: my Honda) is that such cars are 'usually so reliable, the dealers aren't experienced enough to deal with issues". This is, of course, utter and total s
te - everyone who makes things, makes a duff one from time-to-time and how you deal with that is how people will perceive you.Honda tried but nowhere near hard enough - Porsche have clearly tried with this but are nowhere near solving what appear to be considerable electrical issues - and I think a consumer has a right to say "OK - stop - I've had enough, you sold me a pup - I want another car' and the law should back-that-up.
Handled poorly, something like this could be FAR more damaging that the GT3 engine issue because it undermines the whole brand - not just one, exclusive, car.
It also highlights how 'regular Joe' customers are treat, rather than the more exclusive/select customers who get a top-of-the-range model...
Edited by 405dogvan on Thursday 17th April 16:15
cjb1 said:
My 88 911 is extremely well built, 26 years of age and not a rattle, a shudder or anything falling off.
They don't make 'em like they used to!
You're right - your car contains about 10% of the electronics the one in the video does - lacks most of it's safety features - quite a bit of it's engine technology - almost all of it's gearbox technology - even it's tyres will be several steps ahead I imagine.They don't make 'em like they used to!
For the record, I'd much rather have yours but comparing the 2 is like comparing a Comet Jet to a 787 ;0
Oh no! Porsche cars are such rubbish they'll be out of business by the end of the month!
Or not. And not.
Never forget the traditional "British motor industry", once the world leader, really did manage to kill itself by building rubbish cars. Most cars built in the UK today are either Japanese or German.
Or not. And not.
Never forget the traditional "British motor industry", once the world leader, really did manage to kill itself by building rubbish cars. Most cars built in the UK today are either Japanese or German.
405dogvan said:
cjb1 said:
My 88 911 is extremely well built, 26 years of age and not a rattle, a shudder or anything falling off.
They don't make 'em like they used to!
You're right - your car contains about 10% of the electronics the one in the video does - lacks most of it's safety features - quite a bit of it's engine technology - almost all of it's gearbox technology - even it's tyres will be several steps ahead I imagine.They don't make 'em like they used to!
For the record, I'd much rather have yours but comparing the 2 is like comparing a Comet Jet to a 787 ;0
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