Porsche build quality

[Gixer]

This is doing the rounds on Facebook. What with their poor handling of the fire issue and now this doing the rounds they really are not doing too well at the mo.

http://www.carthrottle.com/this-hilarious-problems...

[Paddymcc]

Never understood this famed build quality. Musy be an urban myth.

Owned a lovely looking guards red C2 40k mile 997 and in my year of ownership the exhaust needed parts/gaskets/nuts replaced.

Window regulator snapped passenger side.

Crush washer for chain tensioners leaked and had to be replaced. Stupid design.

Coil packs exposed to our lovely salty roads.

Exhaust heat shield beside coil packs completely rotten with rust.

The cheapest plasticy keys ive ever had for a car with a stupid bonnet release button which opened every time they were put into your pocket. Almost sure i have better plastic toys for the dog from poundland.

Strangely never had any of these issues with my M3 all the way up to 100k miles apart from a power steering pump failure and a diff leak.

[Jon951]

The famed Porsche build quality disappeared with the arrival of the 996 and Boxster. Superbly engineered before that but in the end they couldn't make money and so embraced more modern mass production methods which made a fortune for them, but the quality has never been the same since.

[Boydie88]

Gixer said:

This is doing the rounds on Facebook. What with their poor handling of the fire issue and now this doing the rounds they really are not doing too well at the mo.

http://www.carthrottle.com/this-hilarious-problems...

Brilliant. Good on him, being treated like st and has every right to expect a full refund, if not more for the time wasting.

This comment made me chuckle "You having car troubles i feel bad for you son, I got a 99 Honda and the bh still runs."

[turboteeth]

Paddymcc said:

Never understood this famed build quality. Musy be an urban myth.

Completely understand this - drove the Cayman to work this morning and it was just one rattle after another. OK it's a 2006 car so a bit old, but...
It leaks when it rains (and it's a Cayman NOT a Boxster so work that out!)
Creaks badly when turning at slow speed
Sounds like my old XR2 for tappet noise at low speed - but I believe this is called a "characterful enginer" as heard many others sounding even worse
Leather seats feel like a dentists waiting room
Speaker rattles
Boot clunks

Originally I thought it must just be mine but having been in my dad's 997 with the passenger glove box on my lap as the hinge broke, I notice the same speaker rattle, dentists spec. seats, etc. etc. etc. mind you his doesn't leak, it just burns shed loads of oil instead!

My other car is a 10 year old W211 E-class and is leagues apart in terms of build quality - and this is supposed to be a bad Merc so I can only imagine comparing like for like brand new.

That said, the Cayman S is still a nice handling car - it's just I don't understand all the ranting and raving over it and all the other Porches - they are seriously flawed in my opinion.

[Ved]

996 onwards...

[maxdb]

That's terrible. One of the bosses at work has a new shape 997 turbo. I have lost count the amount of times it has left the car park on the back of a recovery truck.

[unpc]

My old 964 was built like a bank vault but it was such a simple car it would have been difficult to fk it up. I fear the endless chasing of pointless niches has left the German car industry spread a bit too thin. Their chickens are coming home to roost.

[BRMMA]

My old Porsche (988 Boxster S) was pretty rubbish in terms of build quality, there wasn't many things on it that didn't break in my 3.5 years of owning it. it did have many good attributes though and overall was a good car. I owned a Z4 3.0Si for about 6 months simultaneously and that was infinitely better for build quality, though i strill preferred the Boxster

[Blue62]

In 1996 I bought a 993 demonstrator from my local dealer, it was my first Pork and remains the best built car I've owned and is the only car I wish I had never sold. I've had 7 911's in total, 2 996's, 3 997 and a 991 and none compare to the 993.

[funkyrobot]

Jon951 said:

The famed Porsche build quality disappeared with the arrival of the 996 and Boxster. Superbly engineered before that but in the end they couldn't make money and so embraced more modern mass production methods which made a fortune for them, but the quality has never been the same since.

I think you can say that about a lot of the VW group products.

When the bean counters got involved, quality disappeared.

Just look at the Audi and VW cars of the 90's and early 2000's. Much better build quality (although they still had faults) and much more reliable. I had a 99 Bora Tdi and it only sprung one susprise on me (brake sensor fault). Other surprises were caused by terrible dealership work, but the car itself ran great.

I did notice a distinct drop in the interior quality of the cars from around 2004 onwards too.

[SuperHangOn]

German build quality itself is a bit of a myth these days, somehow they still manage to trade on the reputation built from cars 25 years ago.

[OlberJ]

SuperHangOn said:

somehow they still manage to trade on the reputation built from cars 25 years ago.

It's because those 25 year old cars are still here and going strong!

[jayemm89]

Overall most German cars, even modern ones, are built much better than other brands I have experienced.

I owned both a 996 and 993, I can assure you the 993 is not perfect but it is very easy to fix most things on that car which go wrong.

I think the particular fail in this video seems to be the atrocious customer service, you can't make as many cars as Porsche do without having one or two bad cars slip through - but Porsche NA refusing to be reasonable is crappy. I assume the USA doesn't have a "fit for purpose" or rejection clause, as I know some here on the board have used, notably an M5 I know someone has returned?

[cjb1]

Jon951 said:

The famed Porsche build quality disappeared with the arrival of the 996 and Boxster. Superbly engineered before that but in the end they couldn't make money and so embraced more modern mass production methods which made a fortune for them, but the quality has never been the same since.

Coincidentally when they went from air to water?

[Fittster]

What was the reliability like of the 928 / 944 when they were in production?

Just a shame that Lexus/Honda don't produce particularly desirable cars at the moment.

[405dogvan]

Motor manufacturers worldwide have been very smart in keeping themselves outside of consumer regulation when it comes from producing products which are 'not fit for the purpose'. I did think the US had 'lemon laws' tho?

It's something we talk about here in the UK but it's never really happened - I suspect a good chunk of lobby cash is spent to ensure it continues not to happen too!

It wouldn't really be hard to setup something like

"Once a car has been off-the-road for X days in the first X months - the manufacturer should simply replaced/refund"

or

"You get 2 attempts to rectify any fault which affects the car's "fitness for purpose" - after which the car should be replaced/refunded"

I prefer the former - the latter is open to the argument of 'separate faults' - the former is harder to argue with and your car being unavailable is the thing which makes it 'not fit for the purpose'.

I went through this with a Honda - over 20 dealer visits for a variety of problems, most of which were never really solved. Most of the time they took the car apart - called Honda to day "we think we should replace X" - they'd get a 'yes' (so I'd have to return when that part arrived) or a 'no' in which case that was just a waste of a day and I'd be booked-in-again for another round of 'fk the customer'.

Honda even sent their own engineers out - hell, after the car was written-off they tried to buy-it-back to see if they could still trace the fault so I can't fault their effort-level, but I was someone trying to get to work in a car, not a guinea pig for their quality assurance urges - they should have taken-it-back after the 5th or 6th failed repair and given me another one.

and cars have gotten a LOT more complex in the meanwhile...

Edited by 405dogvan on Thursday 17th April 12:38

[cjb1]

405dogvan said:

Motor manufacturers worldwide have been very smart in keeping themselves outside of consumer regulation when it comes from producing products which are 'not fit for the purpose'. I did think the US had 'lemon laws' tho?

It's something we talk about here in the UK but it's never really happened - I suspect a good chunk of lobby cash is spent to ensure it continues not to happen too!

It wouldn't really be hard to setup something like

"Once a car has been off-the-road for X days in the first X months - the manufacturer should simply replaced/refund"

or

"You get 2 attempts to rectify any fault which affects the car's "fitness for purpose" - after which the car should be replaced/refunded"

I prefer the former - the latter is open to the argument of 'separate faults' - the former is harder to argue with and your car being unavailable is the thing which makes it 'not fit for the purpose'.

I went through this with a Honda - over 20 dealer visits for a variety of problems, most of which were never really solved. Most of the time they took the car apart - called Honda to day "we think we should replace X" - they'd get a 'yes' (so I'd have to return when that part arrived) or a 'no' in which case that was just a waste of a day and I'd be booked-in-again for another round of 'fk the customer'.

Honda even sent their own engineers out - hell, after the car was written-off they tried to buy-it-back to see if they could still trace the fault so I can't fault their effort-level, but I was someone trying to get to work in a car, not a guinea pig for their quality assurance urges - they should have taken-it-back after the 5th or 6th failed repair and given me another one.

and cars have gotten a LOT more complex in the meanwhile...

I wonder how TVR get around it, or Lotus even?

[Jimmyarm]

cjb1 said:

Coincidentally when they went from air to water?

They never did get that right, just look at this poor chap with the water inside the footwell

[jamieduff1981]

I do feel a bit sorry for Porsche here.

There are other cars around though which have PH terms such as "brave pills needed" applied when mentioned before a Porsche gets proffered instead as the sensible, reliable choice. It does make me chuckle a little.

I wouldn't claim the Germans made bad cars, but quality and reliability isn't what you're buying. What's sad is that people, even on PH, seem to pass up or dismiss cars they really like due to reliability concerns and instead buy a "safe" German car. Oddly, nobody ever seems to conclude that German cars break down as often as any other. Instead they conclude that Germans are relatively reliable so whatever else they could have had would certainly have broken down even more often.