Why are 996s so cheap?
Discussion
northwest monkey said:
So nobody has answered this question yet, but once the engine has been rebuilt is the problem with the seal then fixed?
And considering the newest 996 is 9 years old surely if the problem was going to happen it would have by now?
I'd imagine Hartech (or similar) have a solution.
Bloody lovely cars - I'd have one like a shot. The one my mate had was gorgeous - dark grey with black leather & loads of toys. Big fat arse as well which is good - I like big arses
The Seal or RMS is the trivial bit, another £50 or so when you do a clutch. The main issues are bore scoring & IMS bearing. Both of which can be reduced by running a heavier weight oil & also making sure you drive it hard once warmed up. Mine (Boxster 3.2S) is run on 5W/50 SL Synth for this exact reason. And considering the newest 996 is 9 years old surely if the problem was going to happen it would have by now?
I'd imagine Hartech (or similar) have a solution.
Bloody lovely cars - I'd have one like a shot. The one my mate had was gorgeous - dark grey with black leather & loads of toys. Big fat arse as well which is good - I like big arses
Problems with both are reckon to be lessened on engines that are driven hard, like track days etc.
BUT out of all our members in TIPEC with M96 engines I only know of one that had an issue & that was bore scoring. No IMS issues.
_Batty_ said:
993's need a top end at 70-90k @ £7-8k.
996's need barrels and pistons @ 50k+ for £6k-£10k.
Ones flavour of the month, the other not.
I think this is more the truth most owners are in it for the long term so it's not really an issue. It is still quite surprising how fragile they seem to be though. Where is the sweet spot, is it the 964?996's need barrels and pistons @ 50k+ for £6k-£10k.
Ones flavour of the month, the other not.
tr7v8 said:
The Seal or RMS is the trivial bit, another £50 or so when you do a clutch. The main issues are bore scoring & IMS bearing. Both of which can be reduced by running a heavier weight oil & also making sure you drive it hard once warmed up. Mine (Boxster 3.2S) is run on 5W/50 SL Synth for this exact reason.
Problems with both are reckon to be lessened on engines that are driven hard, like track days etc.
BUT out of all our members in TIPEC with M96 engines I only know of one that had an issue & that was bore scoring. No IMS issues.
I was looking semi-seriously for another 996 over the last six months and found 3 cars that had the upgraded ceramic IMS, recent clutches, suspension refresh and evidence that there was no bore scoring. The premium for this peace of mind varied from 1 to 3K over what I'd have expected to pay for a 3.4. I don't think finding 3 well sorted cars over that time period was a fluke and I'd recommend anyone with the luxury of time to do the same. The only reason I didn't buy one of them is that by the time I'd mulled it over and thought about getting over to the UK is that they'd sold!Problems with both are reckon to be lessened on engines that are driven hard, like track days etc.
BUT out of all our members in TIPEC with M96 engines I only know of one that had an issue & that was bore scoring. No IMS issues.
yonex said:
I think this is more the truth most owners are in it for the long term so it's not really an issue. It is still quite surprising how fragile they seem to be though. Where is the sweet spot, is it the 964?
When I was looking at 964s ages ago they were regarded as the worst! You could buy a good one for around 10K sterling. Twin spark issues, leaky gaskets, ugliest 911 ever made etc etc- I love them myself but it just goes to show that fashion is really what dictates people's opinion and therefore prices.I had a 2001 C4 and sold it last year replacing it with a Lotus Elise. Ultimately I became a bit nervous of the well documented engine issues and chopped it in for the little Lotus.
To be fair, I didn't have an problems at all and sold the car for more than I paid after almost 2 years of ownership. I found the drive to be uninspiring, the quality of the interior was a let down and the sound system was awful (for a £74k car). The biggest problem for me was the driving experience though.
If I was in the market for something else along the same lines again I'd probably go BMW or Audi.
To be fair, I didn't have an problems at all and sold the car for more than I paid after almost 2 years of ownership. I found the drive to be uninspiring, the quality of the interior was a let down and the sound system was awful (for a £74k car). The biggest problem for me was the driving experience though.
If I was in the market for something else along the same lines again I'd probably go BMW or Audi.
northwest monkey said:
So nobody has answered this question yet, but once the engine has been rebuilt is the problem with the seal then fixed?
And considering the newest 996 is 9 years old surely if the problem was going to happen it would have by now?
I'd imagine Hartech (or similar) have a solution.
Bloody lovely cars - I'd have one like a shot. The one my mate had was gorgeous - dark grey with black leather & loads of toys. Big fat arse as well which is good - I like big arses
The problem isn't a seal in the first place. What people keep going on about is the intermediate shaft bearing. If this bearing fails it can and in most cases ruins the engine. But it is not as common as people keep making out. Upgraded bearings are available for people who want them. Expect around a grand fitted. Your more likely to come across bore scoring or bore ovaling than suffer IMS problems but most people seem to forget about this. If you plan to buy a 996/997 get a PPI carried out and get a bore scope done at the same time.And considering the newest 996 is 9 years old surely if the problem was going to happen it would have by now?
I'd imagine Hartech (or similar) have a solution.
Bloody lovely cars - I'd have one like a shot. The one my mate had was gorgeous - dark grey with black leather & loads of toys. Big fat arse as well which is good - I like big arses
The way threads like this keep going on you would think that every single M96/97 engined car is going to blow up. The engine is used in the Boxster 986/7 Cayman and 996 and 997.1 That's a lot of cars built from 96/97 up to about 2008 i think. If it was such a huge problem the classifieds would be full of 911's/Boxster's ect with dead engines going cheap.
I bought a 10k 996 in Jan 13. Its cost me only wear and tear parts over the last 15-16 months plus 2 services. But what do you expect with a 15yo car. Its not new any more and things will need doing. My 996 is going to a new home this weekend all being well and I'm looking at the ultra reliable M6 next lol.
cayman-black said:
northwest monkey said:
So nobody has answered this question yet, but once the engine has been rebuilt is the problem with the seal then fixed?
And considering the newest 996 is 9 years old surely if the problem was going to happen it would have by now?
I'd imagine Hartech (or similar) have a solution.
Bloody lovely cars - I'd have one like a shot. The one my mate had was gorgeous - dark grey with black leather & loads of toys. Big fat arse as well which is good - I like big arses
Big arse ? 4S... They are very nice.And considering the newest 996 is 9 years old surely if the problem was going to happen it would have by now?
I'd imagine Hartech (or similar) have a solution.
Bloody lovely cars - I'd have one like a shot. The one my mate had was gorgeous - dark grey with black leather & loads of toys. Big fat arse as well which is good - I like big arses
I took him to pick up the car from a service once - there was an old (993?) in the showroom which looked good on the outside but bloody old inside.
HannsG said:
I was close to buying a 996. But went for an M3 instead.
The 996 just seemed too dated for me, and the cars are getting leggy now
I've always considered buying an M3, but the ridiculous 'M' tax has always put me off.The 996 just seemed too dated for me, and the cars are getting leggy now
As nice and as capable as M3's are, they are, to my mind, just a (well) developed version of a standard 3 series, whereas a 911 is, well, a 911 and undeniably a great sportscar, whichever generation or model you go for.
HannsG said:
monthefish said:
As nice and as capable as M3's are, they are, to my mind, just a (well) developed version of a standard 3 series, whereas a 911 is, well, a 911 and undeniably a great sportscar, whichever generation or model you go for.
Are you serious? lol<clicks on HannsG's profile>
<looks for M3>
<finds M3>
<genuinely 'lols' and tries to contain surpise>
Two things,
1. I said 'to my mind'. You can't argue with how my mind perceives things.
2. They are.
MC Bodge said:
jdw1234 said:
I recon a shabby silver 996 with amber indicators is quite cool though
I reckon a slightly battered 911, with all-weather tyres and extra driving lamps on the bonnet, of course, would be quite a good thing in a DIY rallying, don't give a monkey's kind of way.tr7v8 said:
The Seal or RMS is the trivial bit, another £50 or so when you do a clutch. The main issues are bore scoring & IMS bearing. Both of which can be reduced by running a heavier weight oil & also making sure you drive it hard once warmed up. Mine (Boxster 3.2S) is run on 5W/50 SL Synth for this exact reason.
Problems with both are reckon to be lessened on engines that are driven hard, like track days etc.
BUT out of all our members in TIPEC with M96 engines I only know of one that had an issue & that was bore scoring. No IMS issues.
Taken as a whole the number of bore scoring incidents is vanishingly low compared to the total number of cars out there but that's of little consolation when you're in a position (like most I'd wager) where you couldn't financially deal with the cost of repairs if you happen to be one of those unlucky ones. Having the sword of damocles hanging over your head whenever you drive it is from experience a pretty souring affair.Problems with both are reckon to be lessened on engines that are driven hard, like track days etc.
BUT out of all our members in TIPEC with M96 engines I only know of one that had an issue & that was bore scoring. No IMS issues.
I must admit I didn't find out about it at all until after I had already purchased my Cayman S, but it did mean that I drove it with kid gloves (ironically probably the opposite of what I should've been doing) until I could sort out an OPC warranty on it, and it did take the shine off the experience of buying it.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 22 April 17:09
I have a 2003 996 c4, I paid £14k for it about 2.5 years ago I've taken it from 87k to just shy of 100k with no problems apart from a broken indicator stalk.
Tax is £280 a year a set of the correct tyres will set you back £1k and insurance for me is £315 ( late 30s no points 5 yrs ncd reasonable postcode )
Servicing is every 12k miles.
I did spend £900 on the last service however that was replacing all 6 coil packs on an 11 year old car.
Its fast fun to drive gets just over 20mpg on a hoon and just under 30 mpg on a long cruise.
All the toys still work although the original bose satnav head unit is becoming a bit stroppy.
The ims thing is a double edeged sword IMO as its not as common as the scare storys would have you believe but it also can scare of buyers which makes the cars cheaper.
I did a lot of research and bought at the right time for me.
I have done the front discs and pads myself ( easy job ).
I have a local independant down the road from me ( 6 miles to be exact ) called northway who are very good they maintain and sell and when I come to trade up to a 997 in about 2 years time I will be looking there first.
Tax is £280 a year a set of the correct tyres will set you back £1k and insurance for me is £315 ( late 30s no points 5 yrs ncd reasonable postcode )
Servicing is every 12k miles.
I did spend £900 on the last service however that was replacing all 6 coil packs on an 11 year old car.
Its fast fun to drive gets just over 20mpg on a hoon and just under 30 mpg on a long cruise.
All the toys still work although the original bose satnav head unit is becoming a bit stroppy.
The ims thing is a double edeged sword IMO as its not as common as the scare storys would have you believe but it also can scare of buyers which makes the cars cheaper.
I did a lot of research and bought at the right time for me.
I have done the front discs and pads myself ( easy job ).
I have a local independant down the road from me ( 6 miles to be exact ) called northway who are very good they maintain and sell and when I come to trade up to a 997 in about 2 years time I will be looking there first.
tr7v8 said:
shoestring7 said:
Durzel said:
They may be cheap to buy, but don't expect running costs commensurate with the price. They were after all once worth several times that amount.
It is possible of course to run them on a budget, but the major components will still retain prices that'll make your eyes water.
If you buy cars like this you need to do it with your eyes open rather than just saying "ooh it's cheap to buy now"
Agreed. A mate has an early 3.6, so value at ~£12.5k is the same as a late Golf V Gti. However he usually gets stung for £2k every year at servicing. Except this year it was £3.5k including a set of brakes, service, geo and some attention to leaks. It is possible of course to run them on a budget, but the major components will still retain prices that'll make your eyes water.
If you buy cars like this you need to do it with your eyes open rather than just saying "ooh it's cheap to buy now"
Meanwhile I paid £400 for disks and pads for a mkV Gti.
SS7
As for servicing 996 & 986 are fixed price at an OPC so £295 inc VAT for a 12K & £395 for a 24K
Brake fluid change is £85 & plugs around the same. So he's being seen off. As for brakes even the OPCs realise they can't be competitive, all 4 corners should be £500-£700 tops.
I've looked at buying a later 996 or early 997 as a daily driver, allowing me to have a mean hatchback for SS7 Jnr to
SS7
PS From SVP's Facebook page today: "No shortage of customers for our complete engine rebuild service on 996 & 997"
https://www.facebook.com/SpecialistVehiclePreparat...
Edited by shoestring7 on Tuesday 22 April 17:36
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