RE: BMW 435i M Sport farewell: PH Fleet
Discussion
Does anyone with a F30 find that it's followed the trend of the E90 in that they feel more built towards a cost?
I had an 330d E46 and that I always felt was built to an engineering standard, and then priced based upon that.
Now in an E91 330d, and personally feel it's been priced first and then engineered to meet (well, return a profit on...) that price.
My gut feeling is that all modern cars are getting capable but numb, due to centralising development costs and parts so it's a one size fits all setup more than before.
I had an 330d E46 and that I always felt was built to an engineering standard, and then priced based upon that.
Now in an E91 330d, and personally feel it's been priced first and then engineered to meet (well, return a profit on...) that price.
My gut feeling is that all modern cars are getting capable but numb, due to centralising development costs and parts so it's a one size fits all setup more than before.
RemarkLima said:
Does anyone with a F30 find that it's followed the trend of the E90 in that they feel more built towards a cost?
I had an 330d E46 and that I always felt was built to an engineering standard, and then priced based upon that.
Now in an E91 330d, and personally feel it's been priced first and then engineered to meet (well, return a profit on...) that price.
My gut feeling is that all modern cars are getting capable but numb, due to centralising development costs and parts so it's a one size fits all setup more than before.
+100I had an 330d E46 and that I always felt was built to an engineering standard, and then priced based upon that.
Now in an E91 330d, and personally feel it's been priced first and then engineered to meet (well, return a profit on...) that price.
My gut feeling is that all modern cars are getting capable but numb, due to centralising development costs and parts so it's a one size fits all setup more than before.
As a simple example, both E46 and E93 had a button which moved a latch to open the centre console. The F30 has a horrible interference fit. Minor details but clearly a cost saving measure.
Are the interiors any difference between the coupe/cabio (now 4-series) and the saloon/estate (now 3-series)? They seem cheaper on the latter somehow.
Perhaps if they stopped making 100 different variants of 10 different models, they could go back to making 3 models properly?
Limpet said:
Clivey said:
My only issue is that despite the recipe looking good on paper, there's a question of it being less of a "driving machine" than BMW's older cars.
As someone who does 20k a year in a bog-standard 320d F30, I can categorically state that, at least without expensive options fitted to it, the F30 isn't anything like the "driving machine" that the E90 was (comparing with similar bog-standard models from that range). It's just like any other modern car. Competent, but completely lacking feel and driver involvement. On non-adaptive suspension, it is quite significantly under-damped as well.These are details that BMW always used to get right, even on entry level models. I could thoroughly enjoy myself in an E90 318d because the fundamentals were so right. It coped with undulations and camber changes with no fuss at all, and the turn in was always sharp and instantaneous. The F30 is lazier in its responses, softer, more "ordinary" feeling.
Maybe as an M-Sport with the options list lobbed at it the F30 is a different proposition, but why should you need to do this to get the kind of engaging handling that always came as standard on even the poverty models?
Didn't trust my judgement initially given the significant hype about it in the media, so went and gave it another go, still wasn't overly impressed and ended up buying something else.
Unless its specified with adaptive suspension and auto-box ( as a minimum ) then IMHO better choices are available.
Raoul Duke said:
Limpet said:
Clivey said:
My only issue is that despite the recipe looking good on paper, there's a question of it being less of a "driving machine" than BMW's older cars.
As someone who does 20k a year in a bog-standard 320d F30, I can categorically state that, at least without expensive options fitted to it, the F30 isn't anything like the "driving machine" that the E90 was (comparing with similar bog-standard models from that range). It's just like any other modern car. Competent, but completely lacking feel and driver involvement. On non-adaptive suspension, it is quite significantly under-damped as well.These are details that BMW always used to get right, even on entry level models. I could thoroughly enjoy myself in an E90 318d because the fundamentals were so right. It coped with undulations and camber changes with no fuss at all, and the turn in was always sharp and instantaneous. The F30 is lazier in its responses, softer, more "ordinary" feeling.
Maybe as an M-Sport with the options list lobbed at it the F30 is a different proposition, but why should you need to do this to get the kind of engaging handling that always came as standard on even the poverty models?
Didn't trust my judgement initially given the significant hype about it in the media, so went and gave it another go, still wasn't overly impressed and ended up buying something else.
Unless its specified with adaptive suspension and auto-box ( as a minimum ) then IMHO better choices are available.
The F30 is certainly the more comfortable motorway car, but slightly softer (even on run flats and 18s) and less driver focused than the E90. It feels much larger than the E92 (which it is). The steering is nowhere near as communicative, much lighter (esp with servotronic) but no feel really at all. The E92 is much heavier, with better feel.
The 8 speed auto in the F30 is excellent, and essential IMHO.
Quality wise the F30 is not as good, and suffers from technology overload, some of which for no real benefit. The bits of the cabin that are slightly out of sight are definitely harder and cheaper than the E92, which in itself was worse than the E46. Reliability has been mediocre with numerous minor failures (horn failed, rear lights detached themselves) all fixed under warranty, but frustrating none the less.
Overall, the F30 is still a great steer, but its certainly less driver focused then its predecessors.
Edited by GTEYE on Wednesday 23 April 15:56
Edited by GTEYE on Wednesday 23 April 15:56
God there is some rubbish in this thread. The 4 Series Coupe is brilliant. I think people are forgetting what these cars are meant to be. It's not a track car. It will be on motorways, driven in town and given the odd weekend blast up a back road. The new 4 Series (and 3) are perfect for that.
Some people are never happy. The steering is too numb, ride too soft, 30+ mpg not enough the E90 was much better. b
ks.
The E90 had too hard suspension for most and the steering had good feel but was too heavy as well.
Most people (who can afford it) will take the new one every time. It is far superior in every way.
Some people are never happy. The steering is too numb, ride too soft, 30+ mpg not enough the E90 was much better. b
ks. The E90 had too hard suspension for most and the steering had good feel but was too heavy as well.
Most people (who can afford it) will take the new one every time. It is far superior in every way.
Big Tav said:
(who can afford it)
Not this bcks again!Do you have to be able to afford a Mansory Continental GT to earn the right to say they've ruined it by encrusting it with chav tat? Of course not. Besides, many people can afford a new 4-Series nowadays (I await the "finance" BS to start).
As for the E90's steering being heavy; have you got arms made of matchsticks?
Big Tav said:
PS I almost can guarantee my arms are bigger than yours mate...
Oh, come on! 
My point was that heavy steering is hardly a problem unless you're especially frail. - The only time my fiancee's complained about the relatively heavy steering in our E46 is after her arm & shoulder were injured in an accident. Personally, I much prefer the steering in cars like the E46 3'er and R53 Mini to the newer electrically-assisted systems that have precious little feel.
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