Buying modern 'bangers'
Discussion
Noisy said:
I think trying to set up the twin carbs to get them nicely balanced on my old Triumph is just as tricky as trying to fix my more modern car though.
^^^This^^^I have no fear of modern cars having become proficient with older cars. Setting the twins up on my bug is an utter nightmare and no have come across nothing on my 10 year old Volvo that i would not rather tackle than messing about all day sometimes trying to get the "simple" Beetle to run right.
At the end of the day cars are still cars, the other side of the coin for me is that a younger car has had less time for things to seize up, rust over etc. Forums are very active now and become more so as newer cars are falling into the hands of "self maintainers" like myself. Some example of why i am currently shopping for an early Volvo XC90, a car notorious (in some cicles) for chucking big bills:-
AWD failure - Go to a dealer this will set you back £600+ to fix, Buy the kit to do it yourself and its £70 plus half a day of your spannering time
HIFI failure - £1200 of your hard earned to take it to your local volvo dealer - £free if you have a soldering iron and the ability to replace a few capacitors and fix some common weak soldering points on the main board, takes a few hours, if not, there are specialist who can repair it for a few hundred
CEM faliure - £800 if you ring Volvo.....fails due to sun roof drain pipes becoming blocked and letting water into the foot wells under the seats where there are a few electrical bits including the CEM and Yaw sensors. £free to strip down and fix the pipes, free to remove the carpets and dry everything out - basically this is preventative. If the CEM is indeed a gonner, a 2nd hand part is a few hundred at most and its plug and play, so you just need a DICE (volvos Vagcom/Tech 2) to get everything up and running and to check compatibility
Hand Brake seizure/poor efficiency - Take it to Volvo and its gonna set you back £500+, See above for water ingress from the sunroof causing the mech (in the drivers foot well) to rust, replacement mechanism c.£5-£25 from ebay and an hour or so to replace, £26 from Volvo for an official fix for the poor handbrake which fits inside the rear drum, hour per side
So in summary a possible £3k+ of issues fixed at the stealers will set you back c£500 in parts worst case...learning to work on cars starts to seem more like a good idea now doesn't it?
My thinking is if a human, or a robot designed by a human put something together...I can take it apart.
sat1983 said:
We're getting to a time where bangers are now relatively complicated. I am looking at a 13 year old diesel motor and although it isn't anywhere near as complicated at 2014 metal the potential bills it could create alarms me.
Am I on my own worrying about this?
I think someone probably posted this exact thread on the first day Pistonheads existed. Before that, they were just saying it in the pub.Am I on my own worrying about this?
Cars get more complicated but our understanding of the technology goes up at the same rate. I remember people avoiding bangers with fuel injection or electronic ignition because it was "too complicated". I bet if you went back further people were saying the same about vacuum controlled advance.
SuperHangOn said:
The 90's cars were a sweet spot. Carbs, points...
Bit earlier than that, really - I think it was 1992 that catalysts (and therefore fuel injection) became mandatory and cars were generally being built with injection some time before then.We have a 2011 Golf in the family which is pretty basic - old 1.4 petrol engine (not the TSi) although that means it does have a cambelt. But it still has a conventional handbrake - electric handbrakes are going to be an utter nighmare on older cars.
SuperHangOn said:
The 90's cars were a sweet spot. Carbs, points and (generally) serious rust gone but coded parts etc. not yet introduced.
What 90's cars did you own that had carbs and points?! Carbs were gone by 93/94, but points was a 70's thing, surely?Unless you meant bangers of the 90's (ie, cars from the 70's/80's?)
big_boz said:
My thinking is if a human, or a robot designed by a human put something together...I can take it apart.
I agree to an extent but my view is more that anyone can take something apart, it takes some brains to put it back together though!Cars from the 1990s are my preferred bargain bangers.
Kitchski said:
SuperHangOn said:
The 90's cars were a sweet spot. Carbs, points and (generally) serious rust gone but coded parts etc. not yet introduced.
What 90's cars did you own that had carbs and points?! Carbs were gone by 93/94, but points was a 70's thing, surely?Unless you meant bangers of the 90's (ie, cars from the 70's/80's?)
clarkey540i said:
He means those things were gone. I, too, think 90s cars will prove to be a golden era. Electrical faults happen to my E39 more frequently that I would like, but at least it's not canbus....
The golden era is not the 90s - it is permanently ~20 years ago. In 2034 we will be regarding today's cars as the perfect bangers.sat1983 said:
We're getting to a time where bangers are now relatively complicated. I am looking at a 13 year old diesel motor and although it isn't anywhere near as complicated at 2014 metal the potential bills it could create alarms me.
Am I on my own worrying about this?
It's cunning how after 13 years the car is still tied in to the manufacturer's revenue stream. Am I on my own worrying about this?
DonkeyApple said:
It's cunning how after 13 years the car is still tied in to the manufacturer's revenue stream.
Manufacturers would give their left arm to be able to walk away from cars at 8-10 yrs old.I wonder how things works elswhere in Europe, where people often seem to run much older (and higher mileage) cars than we do? I know used cars have much higher prices there, perhaps that makes it worth keeping spending money on them.
R12HCO said:
This.
My experience of a MK4 GT TDI golf has put me off anything VAG and diesel of the early 2000 era.
The price they cost to fix vs value of car is a joke.
Mine has been one of the most reliable and cheapest to keep cars I've had. In 6 years and 60k-ish it has gone wrong twice. Once was when the (original) clutch started to slip at 120k, the other was a couple of months ago when a coolant hose sprung a leak. Neither fault immobilised the car and could be managed until it was fixed a week or so later. I had to do wishbone bushes and a CV boot for the MOT last year. My experience of a MK4 GT TDI golf has put me off anything VAG and diesel of the early 2000 era.
The price they cost to fix vs value of car is a joke.
Clutch was done in 3 hrs, a service takes about 30 mins. Easy to work on. Bits are cheap. Heck, you can even buy a fully functional diagnostic tool that does everything the dealer tool does and more for £100.
PD engine is also markedly more reliable at high mileage than any common rail unit.
If you pay stealer labour rates, yes it costs a fortune to maintain. Use a good indie (or DIY) and buy your parts carefully and they are cheaper to maintain than a Ford.
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