RE: Flaming GT3s - owners bite back
Discussion
CraigyMc said:
800 cars affected, £10K a pop, that's £8m. Buys a fair amount of advertising.
Given that the £8mil would have been spent directly on 800 of your very best customers who are all likely repeat customers and likely to buy more cars in the future I think that's pretty cheap. I've just had a mail shot for a national Porsche experience day offering me a test drive entertainment for the kids etc that's probably costing a few £ mil! I'm a relatively random punter...never owned a Porker but do want to! corozin said:
I have to admit I am struck by the quantity and strength of opinion on this thread.
Personally I do not own a GT3, and so my bottle of "care" for this is absolutely zero. Why on earth should anyone other than GT3 owners get heated about this?
It says a lot about the brand. I suspect many people on PH would consider a Porsche, or own a Porsche. There is little incentive being shown here for prospective customers to buy one, and current owners should be rightly concerned about how they would be treated. Personally I do not own a GT3, and so my bottle of "care" for this is absolutely zero. Why on earth should anyone other than GT3 owners get heated about this?
As was said earlier, everything breaks down. Its the attitude of the company when problems do happen which determines whether the customer goes away mildly irritated or never wanting to do business again.
Guvernator said:
There practically isn't a 911 made in the last 15 years which doesn't have some sort of well known engine issue which has all too often put me off dipping my toe in, a very worrying trend IMO.
I concur with this. It has immediately meant that Porsche has missed out (albeit in a modest way) on selling spares and service parts to me: I spent the first 2 months of this year analysing the risks and rewards of buying my first Porsche, (which was to be a Boxster). I walked away in the end for the very reasons given above. (I bought BMW instead).btw in making my decision I questioned the principals of most of the better known & respected independent service specialists in mainland UK. The majority said that there wasn't a serious problem with the Boxster engine; they performed only about 20 to 30 engine replacements/rebuilds per year, at an average cost of about £7K. Multiply that by the number of such service agents, then add in the Official Porsche centres plus a bit for other agents and you are talking about an awful lot of engine failures EVERY year - and that's just for the Boxster. This fatally damages Porsche' engineering credibility for me.
asquared said:
Guvernator said:
There practically isn't a 911 made in the last 15 years which doesn't have some sort of well known engine issue which has all too often put me off dipping my toe in, a very worrying trend IMO.
I concur with this. It has immediately meant that Porsche has missed out (albeit in a modest way) on selling spares and service parts to me: I spent the first 2 months of this year analysing the risks and rewards of buying my first Porsche, (which was to be a Boxster). I walked away in the end for the very reasons given above. (I bought BMW instead).btw in making my decision I questioned the principals of most of the better known & respected independent service specialists in mainland UK. The majority said that there wasn't a serious problem with the Boxster engine; they performed only about 20 to 30 engine replacements/rebuilds per year, at an average cost of about £7K. Multiply that by the number of such service agents, then add in the Official Porsche centres plus a bit for other agents and you are talking about an awful lot of engine failures EVERY year - and that's just for the Boxster. This fatally damages Porsche' engineering credibility for me.
asquared said:
I concur with this. It has immediately meant that Porsche has missed out (albeit in a modest way) on selling spares and service parts to me: I spent the first 2 months of this year analysing the risks and rewards of buying my first Porsche, (which was to be a Boxster). I walked away in the end for the very reasons given above. (I bought BMW instead).
btw in making my decision I questioned the principals of most of the better known & respected independent service specialists in mainland UK. The majority said that there wasn't a serious problem with the Boxster engine; they performed only about 20 to 30 engine replacements/rebuilds per year, at an average cost of about £7K. Multiply that by the number of such service agents, then add in the Official Porsche centres plus a bit for other agents and you are talking about an awful lot of engine failures EVERY year - and that's just for the Boxster. This fatally damages Porsche' engineering credibility for me.
I came to exactly the same conclusion and also went BMWbtw in making my decision I questioned the principals of most of the better known & respected independent service specialists in mainland UK. The majority said that there wasn't a serious problem with the Boxster engine; they performed only about 20 to 30 engine replacements/rebuilds per year, at an average cost of about £7K. Multiply that by the number of such service agents, then add in the Official Porsche centres plus a bit for other agents and you are talking about an awful lot of engine failures EVERY year - and that's just for the Boxster. This fatally damages Porsche' engineering credibility for me.
BoostMonkey said:
asquared said:
I concur with this. It has immediately meant that Porsche has missed out (albeit in a modest way) on selling spares and service parts to me: I spent the first 2 months of this year analysing the risks and rewards of buying my first Porsche, (which was to be a Boxster). I walked away in the end for the very reasons given above. (I bought BMW instead).
btw in making my decision I questioned the principals of most of the better known & respected independent service specialists in mainland UK. The majority said that there wasn't a serious problem with the Boxster engine; they performed only about 20 to 30 engine replacements/rebuilds per year, at an average cost of about £7K. Multiply that by the number of such service agents, then add in the Official Porsche centres plus a bit for other agents and you are talking about an awful lot of engine failures EVERY year - and that's just for the Boxster. This fatally damages Porsche' engineering credibility for me.
I came to exactly the same conclusion and also went BMWbtw in making my decision I questioned the principals of most of the better known & respected independent service specialists in mainland UK. The majority said that there wasn't a serious problem with the Boxster engine; they performed only about 20 to 30 engine replacements/rebuilds per year, at an average cost of about £7K. Multiply that by the number of such service agents, then add in the Official Porsche centres plus a bit for other agents and you are talking about an awful lot of engine failures EVERY year - and that's just for the Boxster. This fatally damages Porsche' engineering credibility for me.
I debated long and hard over the Boxster engine issue, but the plusses outweighed the minuses, so I bought one, but with a two year warranty obviously.
VladD said:
. . . . . . I debated long and hard over the Boxster engine issue, but the plusses outweighed the minuses, so I bought one, but with a two year warranty obviously.
Ah yes, but according to some of the posts here, and possibly the warranty company, the Boxster engine could be considered a consumable item 
VladD said:
I've only ever owned one BMW and it cost me a fortune to run. It is the most unreliable car I've ever owned, and I've owned Morris Marinas and X1/9s.
I debated long and hard over the Boxster engine issue, but the plusses outweighed the minuses, so I bought one, but with a two year warranty obviously.
The warranty provides that degree of comfort. I ran a Boxster under warranty, and then with an aftermarket warranty once that expired. When I couldn't renew that any further (and after a £4k bill for RNS, new clutch, boots, air con compressor and a few other odds and sods), I listened out for every dodgy noise. Around the same time a good friend of mine rang me to tell me his Cayman S had suffered terminal engine failure and he was staring at a £12k bill I listened out even more intently. A few months later I had a noise from the engine bay which made me think I was about to be writing a cheque for a new engine...thankfully it turned out to be a water pump pulley and £300 or so. Either way, outside of warranty I became edgy and for a relatively low value car it seemed daft. Great, great car but I would have to run one with a warranty or under the Hartech scheme or such like to avoid driving around as though Ms Daisy was in the passenger seat. I debated long and hard over the Boxster engine issue, but the plusses outweighed the minuses, so I bought one, but with a two year warranty obviously.
VladD said:
I've only ever owned one BMW and it cost me a fortune to run. It is the most unreliable car I've ever owned, and I've owned Morris Marinas and X1/9s.
I debated long and hard over the Boxster engine issue, but the plusses outweighed the minuses, so I bought one, but with a two year warranty obviously.
I debated long and hard over the Boxster engine issue, but the plusses outweighed the minuses, so I bought one, but with a two year warranty obviously.
Love the bmers to bits and have had three. However back Springs broke, Main bearings and some smg bits went on the M3. M6 had some smg gearbox work and the rear trim fell off the back of drivers seat iirc. Luckly most was covered under BMW warranty.
So not convinced that any other supercar is significantly more reliable than a porsche.
This is more about how the stealer treats you when you have a problem that they should fix promptly, politely and at little or no inconvenience.
havoc said:
tjlees said:
This is more about how the stealer treats you when you have a problem that they should fix promptly, politely and at little or no inconvenience.
And BMW DO seem to do that bit better than Porsche, by reputation...
Recommended Indies for both porsche and bmers tend to be better than stealers and a hell of a lot cheaper. I may not get a coffee and cake, while being given the latest model as a courtesy car, but do get to chat with the guy who serviced the car, list of what he's fixed, what I need to watch and what probably needs doing next time.
VladD said:
I've only ever owned one BMW and it cost me a fortune to run. It is the most unreliable car I've ever owned, and I've owned Morris Marinas and X1/9s.
I debated long and hard over the Boxster engine issue, but the plusses outweighed the minuses, so I bought one, but with a two year warranty obviously.
I think the whole 'German reliability' thing is a myth that died with the W124 Merc's replacement by the W210, if not earlier. I've had three BMWs across a total of nineteen years, all have had significant positives (the common point being the lovely chassis), but even the simple E30 always had something niggly wrong with it (such as when the driver's seat back collapsed!) and the E46 and E39 I've had since have been nothing but money-pits. I view them with a certain forgiveness, much as an Alfisto does an Alfa Romeo, but they really can be a pain in the arse.I debated long and hard over the Boxster engine issue, but the plusses outweighed the minuses, so I bought one, but with a two year warranty obviously.
Oh, and there's no doubt Porsche has handled this and other issues badly. I remember a friend of mine bought an early Cayenne from Frazer-Nash (yes, THAT Frazer-Nash) in Guildford and it turned out to be an absolute heap of junk. Everything imaginable and then some went wrong and the dealer was pretty useless, as was Porsche UK. He bought a Range Rover in the end and has never looked back. The GT3 saga and that Nick Murray chap's 991 Carrera all show that there is a fundamental arrogance in how the company treats its customers. When you consider that Porsche is a company shifting high capital value products (and will be even more so when the V8 458 rival hits the road in a couple of years' time), you'd have thought they'd treat their customers better than this.
whether this is accurate or not its anyones guess but i just cancelled a deposit on a a 991 gt3 because i couldnt get a build slot after 6mths waiting but the salesman stated that if i waited another 4-5 months porshe were intending to re-launch another run of gt3 in aug-oct 2014 to assist with the current costs incurred due to compensation losses. Maybe he was bulls
tting me i really dont know... but if this is accurate then likely this will aggravate current owners and reduce resale values….??? but again i could have misheard what he said but that was the general theme!
im gutted i couldnt wait but the thought of leaving 10k with a dealer for nearly a year made me uncomfortable ! it is the only car that i find desirable at the moment so prob will just have to wait until the frenzy cools down!
just spoke to another large uk group that supplies GT3 and the salesman didnt deny the above comments! he that that it was a possible scenario?
tting me i really dont know... but if this is accurate then likely this will aggravate current owners and reduce resale values….??? but again i could have misheard what he said but that was the general theme!im gutted i couldnt wait but the thought of leaving 10k with a dealer for nearly a year made me uncomfortable ! it is the only car that i find desirable at the moment so prob will just have to wait until the frenzy cools down!
just spoke to another large uk group that supplies GT3 and the salesman didnt deny the above comments! he that that it was a possible scenario?
Edited by agent biscuit on Saturday 3rd May 16:59
tjlees said:
Love the bmers to bits and have had three. However back Springs broke, Main bearings and some smg bits went on the M3. M6 had some smg gearbox work and the rear trim fell off the back of drivers seat iirc. Luckly most was covered under BMW warranty.
So not convinced that any other supercar is significantly more reliable than a porsche.
This is more about how the stealer treats you when you have a problem that they should fix promptly, politely and at little or no inconvenience.
agent biscuit said:
whether this is accurate or not its anyones guess but i just cancelled a deposit on a a 991 gt3 because i couldnt get a build slot after 6mths waiting but the salesman stated that if i waited another 4-5 months porshe were intending to re-launch another run of gt3 in aug-oct 2014 to assist with the current costs incurred due to compensation losses. Maybe he was bullstting me i really dont know... but if this is accurate then likely this will aggravate current owners and reduce resale values….??? but again i could have misheard what he said but that was the general theme!
im gutted i couldnt wait but the thought of leaving 10k with a dealer for nearly a year made me uncomfortable ! it is the only car that i find desirable at the moment so prob will just have to wait until the frenzy cools down!
just spoke to another large uk group that supplies GT3 and the salesman didnt deny the above comments! he that that it was a possible scenario?
A local dealer to me appears to have 5 of them in stock...... tting me i really dont know... but if this is accurate then likely this will aggravate current owners and reduce resale values….??? but again i could have misheard what he said but that was the general theme!im gutted i couldnt wait but the thought of leaving 10k with a dealer for nearly a year made me uncomfortable ! it is the only car that i find desirable at the moment so prob will just have to wait until the frenzy cools down!
just spoke to another large uk group that supplies GT3 and the salesman didnt deny the above comments! he that that it was a possible scenario?
Edited by agent biscuit on Saturday 3rd May 16:59
I'm wondering if the people most harmed by this, effectively a Porsche recall, are those who ordered their GT3, purely with the intention of advertising it at a premium, as soon as it was delivered. I guess if people took out finance for a punt such as this, then they really are at a loss. But should they be compensated? In any case, I think I'll wait until new deliveries commence and have my GT3 engine fitted by Porsche, not my local OPC. I guess too that once repaired, these early 2014 model cars will be devalued.
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