RE: Flaming GT3s - owners bite back

[juansolo]

Wills2 said:

Mermaid said:

It's a great concept, they got something terribly wrong. st happens. But they will fix it, and fix it good.

Their communication skills far worse than their engineering in this case. That is the important fix that is needed.

Trouble is they don't have a great record of fixing engine issues, M96 anyone?

It was an engineering failure that caused this mess, I would suggest the important fix is the engine.

I'm actually surprised they decided to fix it at all. Their usual MO is to let the engine explode then wipe their hands of it because you used the wrong washer fluid.

I very much dislike the way Porsche operates (and yep, I'm another Porsche owner...).

[hornbaek]

I have been fortunate enough to own a couple of Astons,V12V included, and despite all the "bad press" above, when i climb into my GT3 RS 4.0 there is just no other car that i have ever driven (918 included) that feels so good. So "yes" all these poor souls that have now come together in the action group could simply just walk away but they all know, that they would be walking away from a damn good car - and herein lies the fundamental issue.

[PunterCam]

However it all ends, we'll have completely forgotten about it in a years time.

[Cheib]

I suspect Porsche have taken a totally cynical view on compensation....in markets like the UK where there were simply not enough cars to satisfy demand there's been zero compensation because if owners walked away they knew there were people willing to take the cars. In markets where the demand/supply balance is not as much in Porsche's favour they have chosen to offer compensation.

Can't see any other reason for it.

[squirejo]

Source- no citation of PH own forum and members? A shame for the collective.

The zenith?



Satisfaction, guaranteed. As it should be for the 991 peeps whom I wish the best of luck.

[Pesty]

Shurv said:

Typical German car maker, trying to tough it out and keep it all under wraps whilst doing as little as possible for those who shout the loudest. They are all as bad as each other. F type coupe anyone?

I'm a Porsche fan but I really find unequal treatment like that annoying. In fact the whole way Porsche have been acting recently has annoyed me greatly.

I'd love it if people stuck their middle fingers up and bought mclaren,f type or lotus.

But they won't and Porsche know it, that's why they won't care. Actually I think they know in the us they will walk and in the uk we won't which is why the different treatment,

[jeff8407]

Porsche arrogance is exactly the reason I bought an NSX!

[mnk303]

Hate to say it, buts typical Porsche attitude! Are they so arrogant to not see the long term damage they are causing the brand? These are top drawer customers........crazy attitude, pity there is not much competition at this price

[Durzel]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Never a truer word spoken.

Ultimately Porsche does know what its markets are willing to bear, hence the differing levels of compensation on top of the differing levels of prices and services in each market that already existed. It's not as if these figures were just plucked out of the air.

Porsche know that individuals will be placated by their OPCs in some form or another, diffusing the whole class action thing that frankly never happens now in the UK (petrol price protests anyone?). You can try and get people to join a cause but when it comes to the crunch and their OPC is offering them a cancelled order 991 GT3 for an apparently knockdown price (but is the same if not more than the original buyer would've paid) they'll buy it, or someone else will, and thus the Porsche wheels keep turning.

There's so few of these cars being sold relatively speaking that the people making grand overtures about "never buying Porsche again" were either never in the market for a 991 GT3 to begin with, or will just be replaced by someone else whom the OPC will just say "oh that? Lot of fuss over nothing I'm afraid really, now let's talk options.."

And that is why there are differing levels of compensation: what the market is willing to bear (vs what the market merely says it will or won't do)

[Mike_Mac]

havoc said:

chelme said:

Guvernator said:

I always used to admire Porsche as I used to associate them with outstanding engineering quality. Sure a lot of the time they might not be as exciting to look at as their Italian counterparts but this was always countered by the fact that they seemed to be hewn from granite in comparison but not anymore. There practically isn't a 911 made in the last 15 years which doesn't have some sort of well known engine issue which has all too often put me off dipping my toe in, a very worrying trend IMO.

And what amazes me more is the stench of the Press singing high praises for this manufacturer regardless.

I think Guvernator's comments sadly apply to ALL German marques over the last 10-15 years - they've all leaned heavily on reputations they no longer deserve!
- 1980s Mercs were bombproof, and they dropped the ball big-style in the '90s and traded on their rep...which lasted far longer than it should have done in the face of more electrical gremlins than a Lucas factory. Apparently much improved though...
- VW, hell VAG as a whole, still seem to have this "build quality" rep for no good reason, as their components aren't really any better engineered/built than the equivalent Ford component, mainly because VAG screw their suppliers into the ground through a kind of online Dutch auction for supply...so only the cheapest remain!
- BMW have also had significant engine issues (among other things) that they've failed to acknowledge/fix - VANOS on E36 M3s (& early E46), N53/N54 DI fuel rails, 320d turbos, etc... That said, BMW dealers do appear to offer better customer service and better after-market warranties than the other German marques.

Hell, even Honda and Toyota aren't completely clean, and I'd put those two at the top of any reliability tree (EP3 Civic paint quality and CR-V steering wobble anyone???).

Good point, but the Japanese manufacturers seem a bit more willing to acknowledge and resolve issues with a recall (Toyota), or an extended warranty (Honda). I've had work done on my Accord, under warranty, when it was at 120K miles plus thanks to that.

If they can do it for mass volume cars like this, while providing excellent dealer service, why can't Porsche and other premium marques seem to do the same?

(Not saying they're both perfect BTW, but this, and other stories, has put me off most of the German marques recently!)

[AndyBrew]

layo said:

i would be having nightmares tonight if i had traded in a 997 gt3 for a 991 gt3 & ended up with an aston like some on here. an aston!, i can almost feel the nightmares waking me up in a pool of sweat. so you see, i had to go for a spin this evening, just to stop the nightmares.

But in reality the V12 S for me is so much better on road than my 997 GT3 it's untrue simply because it's ride is light years ahead I did 1,000 miles in two days around north wales and felt fresh as a daisy the car is a revelation on a typical country B road.

Yes you will be faster but you know what I don't care it is of no relevance to me lol!

and the fact it's an Aston is the best part, more class in a wing mirror than in any 911

[piquet]

Guvernator said:

Lol, never thought I'd hear the day when Lotus would be put in the frame to compete with Porsche in terms of customer service and reliability.....but then again I've not heard of many Lotus engines imploding lately, maybe you are on to something!

try dealing with lotus customer service, i played that game several times

if this was lotus the line would be, oh it's just out of it's fire warranty and we've put doors on so you can get out, we can fix it for you but it'll cost twice the value of a car and it's all down to you driving the car wrong

sorry but if the solution is to move to lotus, then people are being set up for another disappointment

jaguars customer service on the other hand is spectacular

[aceman555]

My god don't Porsche owners like to moan all because their new 100k toys are broken
If you're not happy then cancel your order and then go and buy a Ferrari/Aston/Jag/Lotus
If you have brand loyalty to Porsche then wait and those nice German engineers will fix your car.
To me it sounds like the new owners are a load of rich boys who are used to getting their own way in life and are a bit peed that uncle Sam over the pond is getting a better compensation deal than you, its not like your new toy will be your only mode of transport for you to get to work.
On the plus side the value of used 996/997 GT3's with a nice manual 6 speed and a fireproof Metzger engine are going through the roof which is good news for all the ordinary folk who own one

[kambites]

aceman555 said:

If you're not happy then cancel your order and then go and buy a Ferrari/Aston/Jag/Lotus

Bit hard to do for those who have already had the car delivered but haven't been able to drive it. I agree though, that it they're really upset they just need to vote with their wallets next time they buy a car. I bet most of them just go out and buy a 992 GT3 when it appears, though.

[VladD]

piquet said:

jaguars customer service on the other hand is spectacular

You should try living in Exeter. It's obviously different in different places.

[dukebox9reg]

Comes to no surprise with the compensation. Look at the early issues with DSG. Americans kicked off and now have extended 10 year warranties on their DSG boxes. UK naff all.

Americans get at least 5 year warranties on most brands as well as they tend to keep their cars for longer. UK get mostly 3.

Some markets have to pleased a lot more to keep the cars selling which explains the compensation variance.

Us Brits winge a lot as keyboard warriors but unlike the US no civil actions etc are ever raised. At least when all the civil actions against Toyota happened the UK got 5 years warranty out of it as well. Shame I never buy a Toyota (never know might change my mind if this Supra replacement ever comes)

[61GT]

Mermaid said:

cayman-black said:

The more i hear read about Porsche the more i dislike the marque.

and yet there will a long queue for cancelled orders, go figure.

It's a great concept, they got something terribly wrong. st happens. But they will fix it, and fix it good.

Their communication skills far worse than their engineering in this case. That is the important fix that is needed.

"..............Their communication skills are far worse than their engineering in this case"

If that is the case they must be really bad bearing in mind it was a major engineering foul-up that started this whole sorry saga in the first place.

Latest in a long line of engine woes that I guess began post the air-cooled era with the Boxster/996.

[kambites]

VladD said:

piquet said:

jaguars customer service on the other hand is spectacular

You should try living in Exeter. It's obviously different in different places.

I assume he meant the service from Jaguar themselves, rather than from the dealers (which as you say, will obviously vary massively from place to place).

[VladD]

kambites said:

VladD said:

piquet said:

jaguars customer service on the other hand is spectacular

You should try living in Exeter. It's obviously different in different places.

I assume he meant the service from Jaguar themselves, rather than from the dealers (which as you say, will obviously vary massively from place to place).

Ah, fair enough.

[stephen300o]

Just an embarrassing problem to fix,
Get it back on the road and get on with.
Rich folks arguing about compensation is pretty revolting.
They should be more fair and give nothing to all of them.