RE: BMW M3 tester's notes: PH Blog

[dukebox9reg]

M3Maverick said:

One has a turbo which hampers sound - the other doesn't. See F1

Plenty of the new AMG's have turbos and sound epic. Up there with Jag V8s

[Mermaid]

Henry Fiddleton said:

Yikes- sounds almost as good as 2CV!

Akrapovic designed it for BMW.

Good for their sales.

[ab80]

Dan Trent said:

ab80 said:

It's absolutely right that the cost of the carbon ceramic brakes is off-putting. The problem for people (like me) with one of these on order is that there are no reviews of cars on standard brakes with which to make an educated call.

Chris, do you have any insight into the normal brakes?

I'll chip in here because I was on the same event as Chris; sadly there were no cars on the launch with the standard brakes, just as on the Lambo event for the Huracan there no cars with the standard passive steering. It's annoying but understandable; the manufacturers want to show off the cars in the best light with all the toys but it can be frustrating if you want to get an impression of the standard car.

While I'm here we were quoted a price of c. £6,300 for the ceramic brakes in the UK.

Cheers,

Dan

Thanks Dan. It just leaves me a little concerned that the standard brakes show the car in a very different light!

[cheese]

hornetrider said:

Mermaid said:

"Absolutely. I loved my E92, but it was surprisingly limited as my daily driver. Opportunities to enjoy that motor beyond 7,000 were predictably limited, the lack of torque left you exposed to turbo hot hatches"

The M3 for today's environment, well done BMW.

I'm surprised a driver of Monkey's obvious prowess prefers instant hot hatch turbo torque gratification to a glorious NA V8 screamer. For shame.

He doesn't say that. He said "I loved my E92, but it was surprisingly limited as my daily driver." The 'daily driver' bit is the important part. The point, I infer that he is making, is that you cannot regularly rev a 4.0 V8 M engine out to it's interesting part on British roads.

[jon-]

da_murphster said:

Looks good.

What I don't get is, with probably 95% of owners never venturing on a track, why is the 'comfort' setting still hard?

I would have thought you would have a 'bumpy UK road waft' setting, 'sporty decent B-road' setting and 'hard as nails track' settling?

Instead we get a 'bit uncomfortable', 'more uncomfortable' and 'use once to impress your mates agony' settings.

Completely misses the advantages to be had with adjustable suspension?

Can the suspension settings be 'remapped'?

You can only soften the dampers so much. They have to match the spring rate, and body weight of the car. If you just removed them all together you'd have a big bouncy bus!

They'll be firm on soft as that's what the springs / car need.

[cheese]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Good point, but this isn't dictated solely by market forces, it is the upcoming emissions laws that all the major manufacturers have to obey that define what type of technology can be used. You simply cannot get the type of performance expected of a M3 from a naturally aspirated engine within these new rules.
In addition people must like these types of engines and the good, strong low down power they give as they are buying them. Manufacturers make cars for the people who buy them new and in numbers, i.e. the majority.

[bashful]

Question for Mr. Harris if he's around. I notice that this is yet another recent performance car with specially-developed tyres. Given the recent write-up about the S4 gearbox, isn't there a concern about a glut of ten-year old performance cars where the tyres have become hens's teeth? We can't assume that all cars will get a CGT-style magic upgrade from an alternative tyre.

[Captainawesome]

M3Maverick said:

Gandahar said:

This is too near the rest of the 3 series range. You can do your own with the help of some ecu/ chassis suppliers for a lot less.

Edited by Gandahar on Friday 16th May 12:25

LOL, yeah mate buy a 335i, get it remapped and you've got the same car

Where is Vladimir????

Surprised he's not here yet telling us all that his M135i is in fact faster and better than the new M3/M4. It's a 'very junior' super car don't cha know.

[Captainawesome]

bashful said:

Question for Mr. Harris if he's around. I notice that this is yet another recent performance car with specially-developed tyres. Given the recent write-up about the S4 gearbox, isn't there a concern about a glut of ten-year old performance cars where the tyres have become hens's teeth? We can't assume that all cars will get a CGT-style magic upgrade from an alternative tyre.

I've had no such probe getting conti sport contact M3 tyres of my E46

[greggy50]

t8cmf said:

The M4 achieved 7:50 around the Nurburgring. Isn't that the same as the CSL?

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...

It must be a lot quicker than that surely?

The New Meganne 275 will do around a 7:55 (or lower) and that's just a £30k hot hatch!

[jon-]

Captainawesome said:

bashful said:

Question for Mr. Harris if he's around. I notice that this is yet another recent performance car with specially-developed tyres. Given the recent write-up about the S4 gearbox, isn't there a concern about a glut of ten-year old performance cars where the tyres have become hens's teeth? We can't assume that all cars will get a CGT-style magic upgrade from an alternative tyre.

I've had no such probe getting conti sport contact M3 tyres of my E46

Part of becoming OE is ensuring supply for at least 10 years, sometimes longer.

In 10 years tyre technology will have moved on to the point you probably won't want to be on the OE Super Sports anymore, and you won't need to be on * marked tyres for warranty purposes.

[Dave Hedgehog]

bashful said:

Question for Mr. Harris if he's around. I notice that this is yet another recent performance car with specially-developed tyres. Given the recent write-up about the S4 gearbox, isn't there a concern about a glut of ten-year old performance cars where the tyres have become hens's teeth? We can't assume that all cars will get a CGT-style magic upgrade from an alternative tyre.

does any one actually fit them thou second time round? i would just shove stock MPSS's on it tbh

[Limpet]

Do Nurburgring lap times actually count for anything apart from marketing and willy-waving contests? Or for those who have no interest in setting a time at the Nurburgring? Serious question.

[kambites]

Article said:

Sounds boring

No thanks.

[Aused]

you lost me when you said the sport mode makes the speakers mess with the intake noise.

Absolute marketing bks, they'll sell loads then.

[Lost soul]

Limpet said:

I still can't read:

"Fuel economy at a cruise is miles better than before - a genuine 30mpg - "

and

"The manual will hit 100mph in nine seconds dead, the DCT in 8.7 seconds."

without thoughts of witchcraft and sorcery. What an incredible achievement.

Yes it is

[Leins]

s m said:

Leins said:

Just a thought, but does this new M3/M4 leave the door open for a CSL/GTS model? I suspect it does, but not sure if BMW will bother

And as for looks, I like the E36 in GT form more and more these days, but the Sport Evo does it for me more than all the rest, E46 CSL included

Did you see the bit in EVO mag Leins about all the weight saving bits on the new M3? They'd have to start losing interior I think to get a lot more weight out of it - it is well specced though so I guess lightweight seats, no aircon etc would lose a bit.

I wonder if EVO will run another best M3 article soon. They picked a Sport EVO too last time

Yeah, that's sort of what I'm thinking, i.e. is this M3 now at a level where it becomes difficult to develop enough of a change to create a CSL model? Lighter seats and less kit will just invite derision for charging extra for it, and without an engine swap it'll be more of the same comments about just getting a re-map instead. I'm sure if they let the guys at Garching go to town on it though they'd come up with something, but whether it would have a business case is a different matter altogether! Or maybe Alpina will be allowed to go to town on the B3 and create another GT3?


Was that Evo article the one with the E36 Imola? Would like to see them use a LHD GT, or the US "CSL", next time so as best to compare equivalent versions

[jon-]

Aused said:

you lost me when you said the sport mode makes the speakers mess with the intake noise.

Absolute marketing bks, they'll sell loads then.

Standard on all the sporty turbo BMWs. My M135i does it, and surprisingly, I don't mind it.

It's no NA scream, but on a daily drive it's better than nothing.

[Chris Harris]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Jeremy - I'm going to call you by your real name Mr.Laird because I think you often represent yourself as being 'in the trade' and people like us - journalists - don't really have the right to hide behind soubriquets.

Before presenting yourself as the arbiter of what all car enthusiasts should want in an everyday, fast saloon car, it might be best to drive the new M3. If you do and still think the engine is bland, it'll confirm that my opinion on the subject of what is usable, enjoyable and an acceptable loss in 'feel' in the face of ever more stringent emissions and safety regulations is very different to yours. Of course mine is just another opinion, as is yours, but If you'd like to openly discuss which of us better understands this end of the marketplace,and what buyers are actually looking for, then I'm happy to do so here. And admit my mistakes. But as far as I can recall, I have never edited a car magazine devoted to electric cars and hybrids. However, I have lived with pretty much every car in this class for tens of thousands of miles at a time.


Of course your blanket dismissal of people like me spending too much time in GT3s to be able to judge what someone might want from a single performance car is ludicrous, so I won't bother to explain it.

What I will reiterate is that torque is far more useful than outright power in a street car. And I think more absorbing for a daily driver over time. The new M3 has torque and too end. I ran an E92 M3 everyday, for 11,000 miles to confirm that'll had too little of the former. But I also drove a few Zondaghinis during that period, so according to your theory, I'm not qualified to state that I had to drive the buttons off it to stay ahead of turbodiesels and I just couldn't enjoy that amazing top end enough.

Fuel economy? Read again - I'm talking about range. Range is what matters to people who can afford a £60k car. Spending less time at horrid fuel stations. And that is sadly quite closely related to fuel economy. Again, my frequent exposure to Ferraris must mean that I don't quite understand the range issue on the E92.

Sorry if you think I've given you both barrels unfairly, but I don't think it's fair to jump chameleon-style between being forum punter and journalist when it suits you. And then to have pops from the sidelines .

The M3 is a cracker in my opinion. Anyone who thinks the powertrain is boring needs their head looking at. But that's just my opinion. What really matters is what owners think of the car. I hope to be one of those at some point. And I'll still drive the odd GT3.

Typed on my phone, so apologies for typos etc

[s m]

Leins said:

s m said:

Leins said:

Just a thought, but does this new M3/M4 leave the door open for a CSL/GTS model? I suspect it does, but not sure if BMW will bother

And as for looks, I like the E36 in GT form more and more these days, but the Sport Evo does it for me more than all the rest, E46 CSL included

Did you see the bit in EVO mag Leins about all the weight saving bits on the new M3? They'd have to start losing interior I think to get a lot more weight out of it - it is well specced though so I guess lightweight seats, no aircon etc would lose a bit.

I wonder if EVO will run another best M3 article soon. They picked a Sport EVO too last time

Yeah, that's sort of what I'm thinking, i.e. is this M3 now at a level where it becomes difficult to develop enough of a change to create a CSL model? Lighter seats and less kit will just invite derision for charging extra for it, and without an engine swap it'll be more of the same comments about just getting a re-map instead. I'm sure if they let the guys at Garching go to town on it though they'd come up with something, but whether it would have a business case is a different matter altogether! Or maybe Alpina will be allowed to go to town on the B3 and create another GT3?


Was that Evo article the one with the E36 Imola? Would like to see them use a LHD GT, or the US "CSL", next time so as best to compare equivalent versions

If you look on page 13 of EVO 189 ( Dec 2013 ) it details some of the weight loss items.

The other article I was thinking of was this one

http://www.m3post.com/goodiesforyou/evo.pdf