RE: BMW 4 Series Gran Coupe: Review
Discussion
kambites said:
Hmm, I remain to be convinced. Whilst people constantly moan about modern cars not managing the efficiency that "the manufacturers' claim", I've never once heard a non-car person actually talk about it as a factor when buying a car - they still go out and buy the one that records the best figures on the NDEC cycle. A manufacturer would be mad to increase real-world economy at the expense of focussing on NDEC results, IMO.
Thats why people chip cars, more power, better economy, as it should have been.Had a 5.7 Hemi 300C as a rental. Did the same mileage in town with 4 people as my Mk6 Golf in mixed driving with just moi. Turdbos are really only efficient in a steady cruise and rolling road. The trudbo lag means that even if you have let go of the gas pedal, the turdbo is still over delivering unneeded power as it spools down. No getting around it. Turdbos were once used to give power where a bigger engine was not possible to fit (911 turbo, RX7 etc).
kambites said:
A manufacturer would be mad to increase real-world economy at the expense of focussing on NDEC results, IMO.
Things that help the figures also help in the real world, but to varying degrees, e.g. idle stop helps hugely on the cycle but not so much in the real world.It's odd you don't know of anyone who wants to buy a car with good real world economy though, it's a significant reason for purchase.
Contigo said:
BMW beginning to get very mundane now....
Mundane? Really? I think they are coming out of a more staid (post Bangle) phase. The new 2, 4 & 6's are far far from mundane, some of the best looking cars in their respective classes.For mundane, see the Audi equivalent to each of the above.
I realise I'm an old fuddy duddy - but I have long found the model proliferation could well be ineficient. After all there are only so many people with the cash for a car and only so many in the BMW/Merc etc. bracket- so these cars are costing each manufacturer say $100m to develop but do they expand the market or just subdivide what is already in place. Would the sales of BMW have looked much different with just the 4 verions of the 3-series we had in the 90s? (I exclude the true new niche such as 4x4 from this)
Debaser said:
It's odd you don't know of anyone who wants to buy a car with good real world economy though, it's a significant reason for purchase.
I didn't say quite that, I said I didn't know anyone for whom it was a consideration when buying. Everyone wants good real-world economy, I just don't think it occurs to most people that some cars get closer to their official figures than others - the only thing they actually have to go by is the official figures so the buy the car with the best official figures assuming that it will also turn out to have the best real-world ones, even if they're still much worse than the official.
I disagree that anything which helps the official figures will also help real-world figures. If you plot throttle position against fuel to air ratio at different RPMs on something like the wife's Octavia, you see some very strange anomalies and I'm pretty convinced having played about with it that the map they've produced to food NDEC is well below optimal for normal use.
Edited by kambites on Friday 23 May 22:29
For simpletons like myself, be good to start the article with the following;
"This is the five door (hatchback) variant of the 3-series with a w
ky name."
There'll be bugger all difference with all the other variants.
Im sure its a good car, more choice is good, esp if you like hatchbacks like me.
"This is the five door (hatchback) variant of the 3-series with a w
ky name."There'll be bugger all difference with all the other variants.
Im sure its a good car, more choice is good, esp if you like hatchbacks like me.
Numeric said:
I realise I'm an old fuddy duddy - but I have long found the model proliferation could well be ineficient. After all there are only so many people with the cash for a car and only so many in the BMW/Merc etc. bracket- so these cars are costing each manufacturer say $100m to develop but do they expand the market or just subdivide what is already in place. Would the sales of BMW have looked much different with just the 4 verions of the 3-series we had in the 90s? (I exclude the true new niche such as 4x4 from this)
I think you'll find almost all the development cost will go into designing the platforms, and these will largely be 1/3/5/7 series and the 2/4/6 series variants are based on those, so the development cost of those will be very minimal.Basically, from going from 4 models to 7 (I'm simplifying slightly by missing out the "X" models and the variants like coupe/convertible/hatch etc but the principle is the same) the development cost isn't 7/4 times as much.
thijsk said:
At what point does a 2 litre 4-pot get to wear a 428 badge and have twin exhausts. Guess I'm just old school.....
Well considering the 428i is a new model, I'd say the point at which it was released. If you're wondering at what point BMW stick a badge with the "wrong" engine size on a turbocharged car, I'd suggest travelling back to 1979 and seeing the 745i which was a turbocharged 3.2 litre.
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