RE: Tesla Model S: Review
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
Which Tesla owners have considered using their car to power their home?
The battery pack is large enough to run most domestic properties.
If you get free charging at work, for example, then you could use that to power the home at night.
This is one of the big future advantages of large numbers of EVs on the road as not only do they smooth out Grid demands making the Grid more efficient but they also offer alternative domestic power solutions.
You would not want to live far from work if you are planning to do that! The battery pack is large enough to run most domestic properties.
If you get free charging at work, for example, then you could use that to power the home at night.
This is one of the big future advantages of large numbers of EVs on the road as not only do they smooth out Grid demands making the Grid more efficient but they also offer alternative domestic power solutions.
RichB said:
DonkeyApple said:
Which Tesla owners have considered using their car to power their home?
The battery pack is large enough to run most domestic properties.
If you get free charging at work, for example, then you could use that to power the home at night.
This is one of the big future advantages of large numbers of EVs on the road as not only do they smooth out Grid demands making the Grid more efficient but they also offer alternative domestic power solutions.
An amusing thought but the broader economics of this don't work for the future. Once we reach a point where sufficient people are using EVs to be noticeable the treasury will have to gain income (tax) from EV road users in other ways. I don't know what the breakpoint is but given that I only ever see 2 EVs in may daily routine, one on the estate where I live and one at work it suggests that currently the ratio must be 1000s to 1 for ICE. Say that swings to 25% or 30% (or less?) what will be the effect on income from loss of fuel duty? Add to that that the massive additional load on the the generating capacity and I wonder what the situation will be in say 20 years time if everyone drives EVs? I suggest nothing will be free, charging points will be taxed and the government will be screaming to build atomic power stations to cope with the load. Possibly not the utopian dream of everyone driving cars powered by clean, free energy. The battery pack is large enough to run most domestic properties.
If you get free charging at work, for example, then you could use that to power the home at night.
This is one of the big future advantages of large numbers of EVs on the road as not only do they smooth out Grid demands making the Grid more efficient but they also offer alternative domestic power solutions.
However, the benefit of mass adoption of EVs to the Grid is huge as the majority of cars will always be being charged over night when the Grid is hugely inefficient due to low and erratic demand. Adding a large, constant demand during this period will make the Grid far more efficient.
But it is also an interesting angle to view EVs as stores of domestic energy. In the wider perspective this would also serve to assist the Grid at its peak load times by smoothing out that load in principle. Some EV users would be able to charge at a rate lower than domestic energy costs etc.
Re the number of EVs put and about, I suspect that here in Hampstead we have the highest density of EV usage in the UK. From G-Wiz to Leaf they are very common, you will always see one when out and about. But the real change has been with the i3 and Tesla. These first 'premium' EVs have been hugely popular. They're extremely common. A neighbour has both an i3 and a Tesla. They also have some huge Audi SUV and a 911 so a real mix and match.
Down in Mayfair it seems a similar picture with lots of i3s and Teslas appearing over the last 12 months. But this all shows that at this moment in time EVs only make economic sense to the exact people who have no financial need to concern themselves with the running costs of any car. True EVs aren't going to come down to the masses, where they really make sense and could be a huge benefit, while the batteries are so hugely expensive as to make them utterly uncompetitive against a basic ICE car.
RichB said:
An amusing thought but the broader economics of this don't work for the future. Once we reach a point where sufficient people are using EVs to be noticeable the treasury will have to gain income (tax) from EV road users in other ways. I don't know what the breakpoint is but given that I only ever see 2 EVs in may daily routine, one on the estate where I live and one at work it suggests that currently the ratio must be 1000s to 1 for ICE. Say that swings to 25% or 30% (or less?) what will be the effect on income from loss of fuel duty? Add to that that the massive additional load on the the generating capacity and I wonder what the situation will be in say 20 years time if everyone drives EVs? I suggest nothing will be free, charging points will be taxed and the government will be screaming to build atomic power stations to cope with the load. Possibly not the utopian dream of everyone driving cars powered by clean, free energy.
If I'm honest I think if everyone switches to EVs then I think the world's Lithium supply is more likely to be a factor than the National Grid - as from my research it appears to be an even more scarce commodity than oil. Current reserves stand at around 350 years left if we continue to use it at current rates, but if people moved to EVs en masse then this would dwindle rapidly - especially if products like the PowerWall take off as well. Add in the fact that Lithium appears to be a fairly nasty substance to get out of the ground (not that I'm saying Oil is perfect) I do wonder how the hell people have worked out that EVs are anything close to a way forwards - it seems we are just trading one finite resource for an even more finite resource, which I find quite baffling. Given that, and the fact I find the current range of EVs available utterly uninspiring (yes, even the Tesla) I think I'll be sticking with petrol for a good while yet - at least until Hydrogen becomes viable.
rodericb said:
DonkeyApple said:
Which Tesla owners have considered using their car to power their home?
The battery pack is large enough to run most domestic properties.
If you get free charging at work, for example, then you could use that to power the home at night.
This is one of the big future advantages of large numbers of EVs on the road as not only do they smooth out Grid demands making the Grid more efficient but they also offer alternative domestic power solutions.
You would not want to live far from work if you are planning to do that! The battery pack is large enough to run most domestic properties.
If you get free charging at work, for example, then you could use that to power the home at night.
This is one of the big future advantages of large numbers of EVs on the road as not only do they smooth out Grid demands making the Grid more efficient but they also offer alternative domestic power solutions.
If you have a car capable of a couple of hundred miles but comply to the average daily commute distance of less than 9 miles then you have a rather massive energy store that is open to alternate uses than just moving itself backwards and forwards on a set of wheels.
There are all sorts of imaginable scenarios. For example, your power pack on wheels could trade energy while it is in charge at remote locations. A computer onboard can easily analyse your average spare capacity and you can then allocate this to be traded. Thus, your mobile power pack buys energy at low cost when possible, holds it on deposit, and then auto vends spare capacity to others when the price is higher.
Given that something like a Tesla with a 300 mile range will actually be using its power very inefficiently as most of the time the car is dragging along a massively heavy power pack that it doesn't need then monetising surplus capacity seems an almost logical next step in increasing efficiency etc.
In a world where a significant number of cars are EVs transporting excess power around it seems a logical evolution.
The electric vehicle debate ? No debate its the future - lots going on and the infrastructure is changing. superchargers are being rolled out full charge in an hour - so full charge = 300 miles - well how many need 300 miles in one go ? 5 miles a minute ? so the recharge rates look more promising for local use a quick plug in a coffee and then on out to the next leg of your journey.
The superchargers these are beasts and I dont think you will get them at home.... 120kW is a serious amount of power and three phase so thats not that common on a residential estate.... but never say never as electric cars become more widespread the need to distribute local charging around more than what exists just now. Scotland has three superchargers.
The idea of road chargers is being explored - inductive coupling between the road and the vehicle to get power into recharge the battery again you wouldnt need the full charge just say 50 miles or so and how long would it take to get that sort of charge over to the vehicle ? A dedicated lane that the vehicle drives along and picks up the charge ? Its opening up new ideas and understanding - breaking the traditional architecture of transport as we know it.
Looking at solar as a means to generate electricity to store and then use that to charge the Tesla or wind power - again you cant put a stonking great big turbine in your back garden. I wonder what the losses across each would equal and what the size of equipment versus cost would be in terms of getting supercharger capacity to your own house.
Id say Tesla are game changers they have grasped and exploited a desire to get away from fossil fuels to go for electric propulsion. And that alone has to be applauded. The ball is well and truly rolling now and the ICE has run its course.
Having drive one it is indeed the proverbial game changer - the drivetrain better suited to driving than an engine and transmission. that is obvious when you actually drive one, and you dont need to be in a tesla to experience that - any electric car will give you an idea of just how well it works.
Im looking forward to the new era and what it will bring along
The superchargers these are beasts and I dont think you will get them at home.... 120kW is a serious amount of power and three phase so thats not that common on a residential estate.... but never say never as electric cars become more widespread the need to distribute local charging around more than what exists just now. Scotland has three superchargers.
The idea of road chargers is being explored - inductive coupling between the road and the vehicle to get power into recharge the battery again you wouldnt need the full charge just say 50 miles or so and how long would it take to get that sort of charge over to the vehicle ? A dedicated lane that the vehicle drives along and picks up the charge ? Its opening up new ideas and understanding - breaking the traditional architecture of transport as we know it.
Looking at solar as a means to generate electricity to store and then use that to charge the Tesla or wind power - again you cant put a stonking great big turbine in your back garden. I wonder what the losses across each would equal and what the size of equipment versus cost would be in terms of getting supercharger capacity to your own house.
Id say Tesla are game changers they have grasped and exploited a desire to get away from fossil fuels to go for electric propulsion. And that alone has to be applauded. The ball is well and truly rolling now and the ICE has run its course.
Having drive one it is indeed the proverbial game changer - the drivetrain better suited to driving than an engine and transmission. that is obvious when you actually drive one, and you dont need to be in a tesla to experience that - any electric car will give you an idea of just how well it works.
Im looking forward to the new era and what it will bring along
Like a lot of people much of my mileage is local with an occcasional long journey like last week I drove up to Lancashire for a 90 min meeting, 450 miles all round. Arrived at BAE 11:30 and left around 1pm. No electric charge points in the visitor's car park. I hear all the arguments for electric but I only want one everyday car and it needs to be versatile. I'll take a look when charge points in company car parks are commonplace.
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