RE: Price hike: PH Blog
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
IME the difference was significant enough to bother finding one to buy, rather than settling for a much more readily available "standard" car. It's as near as you can get to a CSL with a manual 'box (ignoring the odd conversion which people have done) albeit without some of the underbonnet trickery and the lightweight element. It's definitely a step up, without being the ultimate. TBF to BMW the CS moniker pretty much nails it.
ferrisbueller said:
It's as near as you can get to a CSL with a manual 'box (ignoring the odd conversion which people have done) albeit without some of the underbonnet trickery and the lightweight element
I like the CS, I really do, but your comment kind of implies (although may not have meant) that there are only a few little differences to the CSL. That's a long way from the truth and ignores the totally different character of both cars. That's not to say the std M3 or the CS are bad cars, far from it, just that they're very different to the CSLLeins said:
I like the CS, I really do, but your comment kind of implies (although may not have meant) that there are only a few little differences to the CSL. That's a long way from the truth and ignores the totally different character of both cars. That's not to say the std M3 or the CS are bad cars, far from it, just that they're very different to the CSL
Like the 911 997.2 GTS, a desirable useable car, but not a collectible.Leins said:
I like the CS, I really do, but your comment kind of implies (although may not have meant) that there are only a few little differences to the CSL. That's a long way from the truth and ignores the totally different character of both cars. That's not to say the std M3 or the CS are bad cars, far from it, just that they're very different to the CSL
have a CS that I really like and I'll agree with the above. The CS is a good car but it can't be compared to the CSL which is a lot better a car to drive imo. Still sometimes kick myself for not getting one rather than the CS a few years ago....Mermaid said:
Leins said:
I like the CS, I really do, but your comment kind of implies (although may not have meant) that there are only a few little differences to the CSL. That's a long way from the truth and ignores the totally different character of both cars. That's not to say the std M3 or the CS are bad cars, far from it, just that they're very different to the CSL
Like the 911 997.2 GTS, a desirable useable car, but not a collectible.I grabbed a few E34 M5, a bit expensive to sort out but last hand build bmw, performance in bucket loads and still can be used as a family tool.
Not many made, not many left and a proper car plus a reasonable/unreasonable investment - that is the question.
All that is forgotten when a bit of quiet open road is around.
Not many made, not many left and a proper car plus a reasonable/unreasonable investment - that is the question.
All that is forgotten when a bit of quiet open road is around.
hondansx said:
melvster said:
Interesting regarding the Integrale although the rare EVO II models are hitting the 40k mark now and prices are continuing to rise.
I think one to watch as a future investment is the Megane R26R, arguably the most hardcore hot hatch ever built, extremely rare (less than 90 in the UK) and its something which we will never see again. Give it 10 years and these will be littered in the performance/clasic magazines still receiving rave reviews and prices touching £30k.
Sorry, but no. Not alluring enough i'm afraid; just look at hot hatches through the ages and legendary cars don't make big money.I think one to watch as a future investment is the Megane R26R, arguably the most hardcore hot hatch ever built, extremely rare (less than 90 in the UK) and its something which we will never see again. Give it 10 years and these will be littered in the performance/clasic magazines still receiving rave reviews and prices touching £30k.
TX.
There are 2 elements at play here, one is the fact that investing in cars is not subject to any tax implications so you make £300k on an f40 and to my knowledge not be liable for any capital gains tax which makes them attractive to non car loving investors.
Secondly we are in a period of massive change at the moment with cars developing and changing at such a pace that there is the inevitable desire to hark back to the good old days, there will be no more great manual super cars so people who love cars want to own whats left.
I agree with all that's been said about buying a car you love and drive it but the fact is beauty and badge will always hold its value and might even make you a couple of quid
Secondly we are in a period of massive change at the moment with cars developing and changing at such a pace that there is the inevitable desire to hark back to the good old days, there will be no more great manual super cars so people who love cars want to own whats left.
I agree with all that's been said about buying a car you love and drive it but the fact is beauty and badge will always hold its value and might even make you a couple of quid
Of course it's a bubble!
I don't know if the concept of asymmetric information applies 100% to cars in relation to bubbles and crashes, but it is patently obvious investment in rare (or not so rare) 'exotica' is the current flavour for the wealthy investors.
Realistically, all it will take is for a few wealthy investors (i.e. not enthusiasts who actually drive the things) to off load some of their stock quickly to trigger a price drop, because some other market offers better returns or the cost of maintaining their current investments is becoming punitive (insurance costs etc).
How long before that happens is anyone's guess, but I do agree with the sentiment it will be a softer landing.
I don't know if the concept of asymmetric information applies 100% to cars in relation to bubbles and crashes, but it is patently obvious investment in rare (or not so rare) 'exotica' is the current flavour for the wealthy investors.
Realistically, all it will take is for a few wealthy investors (i.e. not enthusiasts who actually drive the things) to off load some of their stock quickly to trigger a price drop, because some other market offers better returns or the cost of maintaining their current investments is becoming punitive (insurance costs etc).
How long before that happens is anyone's guess, but I do agree with the sentiment it will be a softer landing.
There's a simple game to play that tells you what car is worth an amount and possibly help to separate the wheat from the chaff .
For example , Porsche 4.0 rs. If I gave you 300,000 pounds , would you buy a 4.0 rs with it ?
Exactly , neither would I .
However I am convinced it's no bubble FOR GENUINE BLUE CHIP STUFF , it may slow or even SLIGHTLY correct but never crash .
If you want a 288 gto , f50 , 73 rsr , mclaren f1 etc etc you will have to pay . Also there is a larger market for these cars now and a finite amount of good ones . Simple supply and demand . The crap that's being dragged up artificially ( e.g the 911 t's that re going up because rs's are ) will have a correction . The blue chip may slow but there's no crash coming for the big guns .
To play the game again , 700 k is suddenly good value for money for an f40 work of art compared to that Monet .
For example , Porsche 4.0 rs. If I gave you 300,000 pounds , would you buy a 4.0 rs with it ?
Exactly , neither would I .
However I am convinced it's no bubble FOR GENUINE BLUE CHIP STUFF , it may slow or even SLIGHTLY correct but never crash .
If you want a 288 gto , f50 , 73 rsr , mclaren f1 etc etc you will have to pay . Also there is a larger market for these cars now and a finite amount of good ones . Simple supply and demand . The crap that's being dragged up artificially ( e.g the 911 t's that re going up because rs's are ) will have a correction . The blue chip may slow but there's no crash coming for the big guns .
To play the game again , 700 k is suddenly good value for money for an f40 work of art compared to that Monet .
Edited by wtdoom on Sunday 8th June 21:41
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
.."Challenge Stradale best Ferrari since the F40".."the most exciting car on the planet"... Autocar
11 years on, about 1000 left on the planet, so not really surprising they are in demand.
.."Challenge Stradale best Ferrari since the F40".."the most exciting car on the planet"... Autocar
11 years on, about 1000 left on the planet, so not really surprising they are in demand.
melvster said:
Why not ? It's rarer...... a lot rarer and not all roads in the UK are ruined or rutted. I would only use it for trips to North Wales etc... so it would be perfect. As an overall package i think it is more special than a UK car, not that i would say no to a UK car of course... 
Pretty much for these reasons. I'd also say it embodies (for me atleast) the best of the NSX; the NA1 body style, BBS wheels, the 3.2l engine, the 6 speed manual and NSX-R suspension from the NA1 NSX-R. The UK car has potential with a few modifications but I'm a little adverse to modifying cars. I like to drive the unadulterated product that the group of engineers behind the car envisioned. But each to their own, its a lot of money for one and maybe I will have to make do with a good NA1 (UKDM) NSX if I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to buy one! 
I don't see it bursting like a bubble at all. These cars are rare and it is simple supply and demand. If a house can be worth 1 or 2 million in London and only 10 years ago it was worth 350 or 500k then anything is possible.
Fair play to anyone who had the foresight to buy one and could afford to run one. I'm hoping my 3200 will be worth something far more substantial in the next 10 years...
Fair play to anyone who had the foresight to buy one and could afford to run one. I'm hoping my 3200 will be worth something far more substantial in the next 10 years...
rb26 said:
melvster said:
Why not ? It's rarer...... a lot rarer and not all roads in the UK are ruined or rutted. I would only use it for trips to North Wales etc... so it would be perfect. As an overall package i think it is more special than a UK car, not that i would say no to a UK car of course...
Pretty much for these reasons. I'd also say it embodies (for me atleast) the best of the NSX; the NA1 body style, BBS wheels, the 3.2l engine, the 6 speed manual and NSX-R suspension from the NA1 NSX-R. The UK car has potential with a few modifications but I'm a little adverse to modifying cars. I like to drive the unadulterated product that the group of engineers behind the car envisioned. But each to their own, its a lot of money for one and maybe I will have to make do with a good NA1 (UKDM) NSX if I'm fortunate enough to be in a position to buy one! ferrisbueller said:
Several people have referenced this but I've not yet seen an answer.
I believe the value of NA2 NSX-Rs is something of a moot point in as much as there is only one in the UK and AFAIK you can't get another one in to use it, unless the regs have changed significantly. (I believe that goes for certain others specs also). NA1 Rs are a little more common. I think there are three of them in the UK. However, I'm not sure they're any easier to get in to the country.
Values of regular NSXs have been rising nicely fairly consistently (since I sold mine in 2008 or so)
I don't know the in's and out's of importing but a quick read of the DVA states that any previously used cars below the age of 10 years must meet "European type approval standards, UK construction and use, and road vehicle lighting legislation." (http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/motoring/owning-a-vehicle/buying-and-selling-a-vehicle/importing-and-exporting-a-vehicle/registering-an-imported-vehicle.htm)I believe the value of NA2 NSX-Rs is something of a moot point in as much as there is only one in the UK and AFAIK you can't get another one in to use it, unless the regs have changed significantly. (I believe that goes for certain others specs also). NA1 Rs are a little more common. I think there are three of them in the UK. However, I'm not sure they're any easier to get in to the country.
Values of regular NSXs have been rising nicely fairly consistently (since I sold mine in 2008 or so)
Because the NA2 NSX-R was produced between 2002-2005 (if I'm not mistaken) would mean by next year all the NA2 NSX-R's would be eligible to be imported without the monstrous costs associated with adapting the NA2 NSX-R, but as they have passed the 10 year mark it doesn't have to be subject to this rule! I might be totally wrong but that is just my interpretation of the law! So anyone whos wanted an NA2 NSX-R and have between £120-250k please get importing!
The bubble will burst when interest rates rise, if it's a bubble at all.
Over the last few years there has been significant capital flows into areas that make money, simply because it's pointless to leave it in the bank. Similarly, capital that has moved abroad since 2008 will be repatriated to the larger Western economies.
Emerging markets will try to stop it by introducing exit charges (as South Africa did last year) but ultimately they'll fail.
Money needs a home. And right now it's wine, art, cars and property. Tomorrow…who knows?
Over the last few years there has been significant capital flows into areas that make money, simply because it's pointless to leave it in the bank. Similarly, capital that has moved abroad since 2008 will be repatriated to the larger Western economies.
Emerging markets will try to stop it by introducing exit charges (as South Africa did last year) but ultimately they'll fail.
Money needs a home. And right now it's wine, art, cars and property. Tomorrow…who knows?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff