Unsafe Mods - Extreme Dubs / Drifters / Stance etc.

[Tunku]

iva cosworth said:

LOW4LYFE said:

Greg_D said:

he's talking about the utter cretins who do this sort of thing to their cars



To cap it all off, they generally use the cheapest rubber as well becasue they are trashing them so often.

A compulsory 50-0 wet braking test would certainly be illuminating.

Have you ever actually seen anything that extreme in the UK? I haven't.

I have seen a J reg Civic with close to that much rear camber locally,twice but both times we were

both driving so unable to get a pic.

There's also a BINI with some excess rear camber but it's now been parked on a driveway and won't

get a pic of that either unless it's moved...

There was a Clio I spotted when I was going for fuel fairly locally with much the same extreme camber, both front and rear. My over-riding impression was of the horrible bouncy choppy ride it had. I wish I had had a movie camera to hand when I saw it.

[e21Mark]

Crafty_ said:

I just don't get it. The whole point of modifying a car is to improve it, thats what guys like Ed Iskenderian, Vic Edelbrock etc were doing in the 30s out on the dry lakes, removing fenders for weight/aero, figuring out how to build camshafts to give better power, intakes and heads too. Its gone from there onwards

I'm pretty sure cars were modified even earlier than that, Car culture has moved on though and personally I'm happy to see it thrive, no matter my personal opinions on the look of some sections. I may be middle aged but I can still see how the VW scene has grown to include music and fashion, which in turn is reflected in their cars. In recent years Japanese culture has become another strong influence, with the advent of drifting and a whole other look for their cars. I think the diversity of cars and modifications is a positive aspect and has attracted a new generation to develop a UK car culture that envelops a wide variety of styles. Motorsport and car modification in the UK has gone from strength to strength and I think that's a positive thing. If we all liked and drove the same things, this would be a boring place to be.

[AW111]

nurseholliday said:

When do you see an F1 car at this amount of lock for longer than a second?



If you don't understand drifting, that's OK, but don't talk st when you don't understand.

You appear to be talking about compensating for camber change due to front caster at full lock.
Fair enough. But if you look at the rear tyres in your pic, they are properly vertical. So no silly rear stance on that drift car.

[Tony Starks]

Crafty_ said:

I just don't get it. The whole point of modifying a car is to improve it,

Modifying isn't just about going fast.

[JordanTurbo]

nurseholliday said:

You may think it looks st but when you're sideways at maximum lock, you want the biggest contact patch on the tarmac. As a wheel turns, it cambers in a positive direction. A car with -5 on the front when the wheels are pointing straight ahead will have 0 camber at full lock ensuring maximum grip.

It only moves in a positive direction for the leading wheel (The one closest to the direction you're turning/sliding) because it's outboard side is facing towards the rear of the car. The other wheel has it's inboard side facing rearward so the camber would move in a negative direction and now be on -10 degrees.

Edited by JordanTurbo on Saturday 14th June 07:25

[Escort3500]

nurseholliday said:

vtecyo said:

My EP3 is lowered 30mm on Eibach springs. Any lower (not that I would go any lower as it really knackers the EP3) than 50mm and Admiral won't cover it.

I'm big into the modifying scene, and I haven't actually owned a non modified car yet. The whole "stance scene" in the UK makes me cringe. The cars can look pretty suave, no doubt, but as with everything there's that little niche group that give everyone else a bad rep. Often commonly seen wearing womens jeans, new ear hats at vertical 90 degrees, and a body mass index that makes the average Ethiopian look like Rick Waller. To me, "stance" means changing the wheels for some that fill the arches nicely which is often a by product of fitting wider, stickier rubber, and lowering it slightly to make it look purposeful, not fitting the most ridiculous wheels possible and putting it on air ride.

For example, this MR2 has nice stance.



This is st



[/2p]

You may think it looks st but when you're sideways at maximum lock, you want the biggest contact patch on the tarmac. As a wheel turns, it cambers in a positive direction. A car with -5 on the front when the wheels are pointing straight ahead will have 0 camber at full lock ensuring maximum grip.

So are you saying that the blue car's used for drifting? I can't see how

[Crafty_]

Tony Starks said:

Crafty_ said:

I just don't get it. The whole point of modifying a car is to improve it,

Modifying isn't just about going fast.

Who said that it was ? What I said is that any changes are to improve the vehicle - that doesn't just mean more power.

[226bhp]

Trustmeimadoctor said:

bring the german mot thing over here that would sort it out not our half arsed mot that you dont even need an engine in the car to pass if teh car is pre god know what

German MOTs aren't all that, I've seen some real stheaps with tickets.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Tony Starks said:

Crafty_ said:

I just don't get it. The whole point of modifying a car is to improve it,

Modifying isn't just about going fast.

Exactly, to some-improving a car's appearance to themselves is good enough for them.

[eddy02]

Trustmeimadoctor said:

that needs those teady rims set it off a treat

Makes me chuckle when somebody tries to be clever but types un-readable comments like this.

[Crafty_]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Exactly, to some-improving a car's appearance to themselves is good enough for them.

At the cost of just about everything else ?

meh.

[Buff Mchugelarge]

AW111 said:

nurseholliday said:

When do you see an F1 car at this amount of lock for longer than a second?



If you don't understand drifting, that's OK, but don't talk st when you don't understand.

You appear to be talking about compensating for camber change due to front caster at full lock.
Fair enough. But if you look at the rear tyres in your pic, they are properly vertical. So no silly rear stance on that drift car.

My thoughts exactly.

[mph1977]

vx220 said:

Lawbags said:

Not all suspension reduces travel as you lower them.
This is what I run and regardless of how low, the travel stays the same.

As said, you can hit other stuff before the damper runs out of travel (bumpstops etc)

Also, lowering the suspension affects the rollcentre of the car (not just C of G) actually increasing the angle of lean, meaning an even higher spring rate is necessary!

FYI I do not pretend to understand the physics involved, but I heard it from a well-respected source...

that's the key thing , even if the suspension components are well designed the fitting and any further modeification from (assuming it;s designed this way) bolt it in as a swap with the OEM parts to get n mm of lowered suspension means it;s a nightmare ...

[Trustmeimadoctor]

eddy02 said:

Makes me chuckle when somebody tries to be clever but types un-readable comments like this.

Sorry ronal teddy rims or maybe some of these

[vtecyo]

nurseholliday said:

When do you see an F1 car at this amount of lock for longer than a second?



If you don't understand drifting, that's OK, but don't talk st when you don't understand.

Where's the rear camber on that? Or in fact any of the proper D1 cars? If you get off Forza and do a basic Google image search, you'll see that most of them run naff all camber, front or rear, including arguably the most well known drift car - Mad Mikes 4rotor RX7.



If you don't understand drifting, that's OK, but don't talk st when you don't understand.

[Trustmeimadoctor]

Also this quote is from an article on setting up a car for drift

"Although it is "cool" to run tons of negative camber, please leave that to the hellaflush show guys. Demon camber hurts performance."

And they recommend 3-5deg neg on the front and not changing it on the rear.

Oh and it also says this

"Once you make your car adjustable you can try these basic alignment settings. These are settings that are good for drifting and are not necessarily good for everyday street driving. Rapid tire wear on the street may occur. However you will probably get better tire wear when drifting!"

[Tony Starks]

Crafty_ said:

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Exactly, to some-improving a car's appearance to themselves is good enough for them.

At the cost of just about everything else ?

meh.

So what? It's what makes people happy.

As long as it's not done dangerously (like a lot of cars here in NZ are) then I don't see a problem with what anyone does to their car.

I've posted pictures in the badly modified thread before and whilst they car wasn't for me. It made the owner happy (although heart shaped exhaust mufflers on a V8 should require a mental test

[Gary C]

nurseholliday said:

vtecyo said:

My EP3 is lowered 30mm on Eibach springs. Any lower (not that I would go any lower as it really knackers the EP3) than 50mm and Admiral won't cover it.

I'm big into the modifying scene, and I haven't actually owned a non modified car yet. The whole "stance scene" in the UK makes me cringe. The cars can look pretty suave, no doubt, but as with everything there's that little niche group that give everyone else a bad rep. Often commonly seen wearing womens jeans, new ear hats at vertical 90 degrees, and a body mass index that makes the average Ethiopian look like Rick Waller. To me, "stance" means changing the wheels for some that fill the arches nicely which is often a by product of fitting wider, stickier rubber, and lowering it slightly to make it look purposeful, not fitting the most ridiculous wheels possible and putting it on air ride.

For example, this MR2 has nice stance.



This is st



[/2p]

You may think it looks st but when you're sideways at maximum lock, you want the biggest contact patch on the tarmac. As a wheel turns, it cambers in a positive direction. A car with -5 on the front when the wheels are pointing straight ahead will have 0 camber at full lock ensuring maximum grip.

Oh come on, the camber on that 200sx is only about looks.

The camber change on steering can be set by design such that you don't need -5 to give you the necessary camber on full lock. And anyway, why camber the rears then ? (And I have a very good friend who was a senior chassis engineer for twr and knows more than most about chassis and steering dynamics and he agrees)

It's about looks, and ok, each to their own, but you are increasing the stress on hubs, wheel studs, tyres and reducing cornering & braking grip for the sake of looks. At best, it's about show (and that's ok I admit) at worst you have dangerous cars that are not fit to be on the road.

[pad58]

I have a Mk4 Golf and had it for 12 years, if you look on my profile that's as far cosmetically I did and now back to standard, I changed the engine (mapped twice) the braking, the handling to much to mention, now the bodywork looks nank and shabby ,dings and scuffs as happens on a 13 year old car with 98k.
It looks like a standard Mk4 boring 18T ,but it's not, I went for the sleeper look.

It's sharp and goes like VW should have made it from the factory to warrant the GTi badge.

Not keen on the "You ain't Dubbing if you ain't rubbing" idea but it's my car and goes well.

[TooMany2cvs]

And, right on cue...
http://totalcarmagazine.com/features/2014/06/15/ho...