Unsafe Mods - Extreme Dubs / Drifters / Stance etc.
Discussion
hairykrishna said:
zeppelin101 said:
This, and all the other threads ripping people's modified cars only serves to highlight how wonderfully snobby and cliquey the world of car enthusiasts is.
It's not snobbery to think that people running stretched tyres are dangerous.Yokohama seem to think that running wider/narrower wheels than these can cause tyre/wheel damage and/or stop the tyre performing properly.
zeppelin101 said:
No, but saying that this that and the other mod makes the car look s
t and is pointless and the owner must therefore be retarded because they don't agree with your point of view sure as st is.
I dont see any reason why an otherwise bright chap would think negatively impacting the roadworthiness and drivability of his car is a good idea. And as is aptly demonstrated whenever someone in 'the scene' pops up, they tend not to be particularly sharp blokes.t and is pointless and the owner must therefore be retarded because they don't agree with your point of view sure as st is.As with all fads though, it'll pass. Just have to hope that these guys dont hurt themselves or others in their quest for ever more ridiculous cambers and more useless ride heights. More importantly, I just have to hope they dont crash into me
It just gets very boring when older enthusiasts are so keen to blast youngsters as all being dick heads with unsafe modified cars and seem to forget that in the 60s,70s and so forth there were also modified cars and no doubt plenty of people thought that the teenagers in mk2 escorts with 15 inch rear wheels and 13 inch front wheels looked like bell ends whilst also pointing and laughing at their bell bottom trousers and god awful floral shirts.
My view is instead of branding all these kids who are clearly into modified cars as stupid older enthusiasts ought to be trying to guide them or offer useful advice. That way they may turn into the acceptable enthusiasts you all think you are!!
My view is instead of branding all these kids who are clearly into modified cars as stupid older enthusiasts ought to be trying to guide them or offer useful advice. That way they may turn into the acceptable enthusiasts you all think you are!!
zeppelin101 said:
No, but saying that this that and the other mod makes the car look st and is pointless and the owner must therefore be retarded because they don't agree with your point of view sure as st is.
You misunderstand the entire argument.t and is pointless and the owner must therefore be retarded because they don't agree with your point of view sure as st is.The owner must be retarded BECAUSE the mods make the car look s
t and are pointless.TooMany2cvs said:
You misunderstand the entire argument.
The owner must be retarded BECAUSE the mods make the car look st and are pointless.
Or the "enthusiast" is retarded if he cannot understand that not all modifications are purely for other people's pleasure and looks are subjective.The owner must be retarded BECAUSE the mods make the car look s
t and are pointless.
aka_kerrly said:
It just gets very boring when older enthusiasts are so keen to blast youngsters as all being dick heads with unsafe modified cars and seem to forget that in the 60s,70s and so forth there were also modified cars and no doubt plenty of people thought that the teenagers in mk2 escorts with 15 inch rear wheels and 13 inch front wheels looked like bell ends
Well, they did. But it comes to the same thing - the looks might not be to everyone's taste, but there's always people who took stuff to extremes - chroming the diff and then getting the rear suspension high enough for everyone to see it. I'm willing to bet it did nothing for the handling characteristics of the car, and made it less safe than before. Granted, people were less 'saftey nazi' back then, and less willing to slap legislation on everything. But that's kind of the point. I don't want my ability to mod my car (sensibly in my view) compromised by people screwing their car up to a point where it's unsafe, killing someone in an RTA and then the associated backlash meaning a blanket ban on modding as in some european countries.aka_kerrly said:
whilst also pointing and laughing at their bell bottom trousers and god awful floral shirts.
Heartily deserved.aka_kerrly said:
My view is instead of branding all these kids who are clearly into modified cars as stupid older enthusiasts ought to be trying to guide them or offer useful advice. That way they may turn into the acceptable enthusiasts you all think you are!!
Remember this is an internet forum. 
aka_kerrly said:
Or the "enthusiast" is retarded if he cannot understand that not all modifications are purely for other people's pleasure and looks are subjective.
So all those people fitting ridiculous tyres onto completely and utterly mismatched tyres, then badly bodging the suspension so that it knackers the tyres in short order are doing so off their own bat, and not because of some desire to conform to a currently-fashionable "look", thereby gaining the appreciation of others? It's purely an internal pleasure at the end result alone, and they really do not care one jot for the opinion of others?If so, then absolutely fair enough. Go for it.
If, as I suspect, there is a very large element of herd mentality pushing them towards that direction because they think the girlies down McDogbits carpark will get all moist at the thought of those sidewalls, then...
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Thursday 21st August 15:48
aka_kerrly said:
It just gets very boring when older enthusiasts are so keen to blast youngsters as all being dick heads with unsafe modified cars and seem to forget that in the 60s,70s and so forth there were also modified cars and no doubt plenty of people thought that the teenagers in mk2 escorts with 15 inch rear wheels and 13 inch front wheels looked like bell ends whilst also pointing and laughing at their bell bottom trousers and god awful floral shirts.
My view is instead of branding all these kids who are clearly into modified cars as stupid older enthusiasts ought to be trying to guide them or offer useful advice. That way they may turn into the acceptable enthusiasts you all think you are!!
What about those of us who are early 20's and still think the scenesters are dMy view is instead of branding all these kids who are clearly into modified cars as stupid older enthusiasts ought to be trying to guide them or offer useful advice. That way they may turn into the acceptable enthusiasts you all think you are!!
heads?For me it's reasonably simple.
Certain key components of cars (such as tyres) require type approval for safety reasons. If those components are being used within the parameters for which they were type approved, I have no real problem with the modifications; if they're being used outside those parameters it's no different to using non-type approved parts in the first place and should be illegal.
So stretching tyres which are designed and type approved to be and stretched is fine. Stretching a tyre which is type approved for no greater than a 6 inch wheel onto an eight inch wheel is utterly moronic. Same with camber, I assume tyre manufacturers test up to a certain camber angle (even if it's not actually defined in the type approval); going beyond whatever they test to is stupid.
Certain key components of cars (such as tyres) require type approval for safety reasons. If those components are being used within the parameters for which they were type approved, I have no real problem with the modifications; if they're being used outside those parameters it's no different to using non-type approved parts in the first place and should be illegal.
So stretching tyres which are designed and type approved to be and stretched is fine. Stretching a tyre which is type approved for no greater than a 6 inch wheel onto an eight inch wheel is utterly moronic. Same with camber, I assume tyre manufacturers test up to a certain camber angle (even if it's not actually defined in the type approval); going beyond whatever they test to is stupid.
TooMany2cvs said:
aka_kerrly said:
Or the "enthusiast" is retarded if he cannot understand that not all modifications are purely for other people's pleasure and looks are subjective.
So all those people fitting ridiculous tyres onto completely and utterly mismatched tyres, then badly bodging the suspension so that it knackers the tyres in short order are doing so off their own bat, and not because of some desire to conform to a currently-fashionable "look", thereby gaining the appreciation of others? It's purely an internal pleasure at the end result alone, and they really do not care one jot for the opinion of others?If so, then absolutely fair enough. Go for it.
If, as I suspect, there is a very large element of herd mentality pushing them towards that direction because they think the girlies down McDogbits carpark will get all moist at the thought of those sidewalls, then...
Edited by TooMany2cvs on Thursday 21st August 15:48
My issue is that whilst it IS correct to say that there are a small number of cars that have been modified badly there is still a much much larger number of cars that have been modified in terms of wheels, suspension, geometry which are perfectly fine.
As I have mentioned in other threads along similar lines there seems to be far more aggression aimed at youngsters who as you say want to modify their cars based on a current trend who will certainly realise later on that it is just a phase, but it could be the phase that gets them far more interested in cars if it wasn't for people constantly telling them they are dicks. Think back to when you were a teenager, if some old bloke with a standard mondeo starts telling you your car is s
t and you're a dick for modifying are you going to pay any attention? It's people who think all young modifiers are out to kill themselves and others who need to get a grip and realise there are far far far more dangerous cars due to neglect that I'd rather see off the road before people start appealing for a BAN on all modifications.
I bought what appeared to be a nice, early 1600-2 a few months ago. It's picture could be found all over the usual stance, low, scene, hipster websites. It was built to look a certain way I guess and appealed to a certain type of enthusiast. In fact, had it been a statue it would have been fine. It wasn't fine to wave someone off and let them drive down a road in it though, as it really was a potential death trap.
The picture is an example of the workmanship found when the RAC finally brought the thing home. Added to this were the supposedly overhauled brakes, where just one calliper worked, there was a single braided line and the master cylinder was pissing fluid everywhere. All this on a car that just come from a show. I mean looks are way more important after all. This guy didn't give a toss about how he achieved the look he wanted, or about the potential consequences for himself or others.
Obviously not all stance scene types are quite so stupid and wreck less, but sadly they're the ones folk remember.
The picture is an example of the workmanship found when the RAC finally brought the thing home. Added to this were the supposedly overhauled brakes, where just one calliper worked, there was a single braided line and the master cylinder was pissing fluid everywhere. All this on a car that just come from a show. I mean looks are way more important after all. This guy didn't give a toss about how he achieved the look he wanted, or about the potential consequences for himself or others.
Obviously not all stance scene types are quite so stupid and wreck less, but sadly they're the ones folk remember.
aka_kerrly said:
Blimey, in all honestly i think we actually have the same views on the most EXTREME of modifications if they are carried out in a unlawful or generally unsafe way.
<looks at thread title>aka_kerrly said:
As I have mentioned in other threads along similar lines there seems to be far more aggression aimed at youngsters
I think you're the first one to start generalising on age, and assuming it's old people having a pop at da yoof, tbh.aka_kerrly said:
some old bloke with a standard mondeo
Now, about those generalisations...?aka_kerrly said:
It's people who think all young modifiers are out to kill themselves and others who need to get a grip and realise there are far far far more dangerous cars due to neglect that I'd rather see off the road before people start appealing for a BAN on all modifications.
Get that chip off your shoulder, and read the thread.People are b
hing about stupid mods here, not about young 'uns in general, and CERTAINLY not about modifications in general. Those few who've said TuV or IVA are needed over any mod have been quickly shouted down - including by me.aka_kerrly said:
Blimey, in all honestly i think we actually have the same views on the most EXTREME of modifications if they are carried out in a unlawful or generally unsafe way.
My issue is that whilst it IS correct to say that there are a small number of cars that have been modified badly there is still a much much larger number of cars that have been modified in terms of wheels, suspension, geometry which are perfectly fine.
As I have mentioned in other threads along similar lines there seems to be far more aggression aimed at youngsters who as you say want to modify their cars based on a current trend who will certainly realise later on that it is just a phase, but it could be the phase that gets them far more interested in cars if it wasn't for people constantly telling them they are dicks. Think back to when you were a teenager, if some old bloke with a standard mondeo starts telling you your car is st and you're a dick for modifying are you going to pay any attention?
It's people who think all young modifiers are out to kill themselves and others who need to get a grip and realise there are far far far more dangerous cars due to neglect that I'd rather see off the road before people start appealing for a BAN on all modifications.
I think most of us have similar views - modifications are okay if done properly and in a way which isn't to the detriment of safety. Sadly, there's a lot on the 'stance' scene who don't consider these aspects. Just take the facebook group mentioned elsewhere on PH (Slambertown) and others like it.My issue is that whilst it IS correct to say that there are a small number of cars that have been modified badly there is still a much much larger number of cars that have been modified in terms of wheels, suspension, geometry which are perfectly fine.
As I have mentioned in other threads along similar lines there seems to be far more aggression aimed at youngsters who as you say want to modify their cars based on a current trend who will certainly realise later on that it is just a phase, but it could be the phase that gets them far more interested in cars if it wasn't for people constantly telling them they are dicks. Think back to when you were a teenager, if some old bloke with a standard mondeo starts telling you your car is s
t and you're a dick for modifying are you going to pay any attention? It's people who think all young modifiers are out to kill themselves and others who need to get a grip and realise there are far far far more dangerous cars due to neglect that I'd rather see off the road before people start appealing for a BAN on all modifications.
There are some very well modified cars running slight stretch, lowered, slight camber,etc which I'm sure, go & stop just as well or better than when they left the factory. However, there's a fair few which are quite the opposite - chopped springs/ welded dampers, wheels so 'stanced' they can't get over half lock, tyres with <50% of the tread in contact with the road, so low they can't get over speedbumps safely, etc.
aka_kerrly said:
Or the "enthusiast" is retarded if he cannot understand that not all modifications are purely for other people's pleasure and looks are subjective.
Are you saying that some mods ARE purely for other peoples pleasure? That seems like a very strange reason to modifya car.Maybe you are confusing this with people doing mods to gain acceptance amongst peers? i.e. once one person has decided that putting ridiculous amount of much camber on a car is a great idea, then the rest of his flock of sheep feel compelled to follow. The flock like to say it's because it makes their cars "individual", but that's clearly not the case.
Stupidity is not bounded by age, sex, religion, ethnicity etc. so this isn't targeting younger car owners, it's just targeting stupidity.
I use the corsa b system on my reliant which is mid engined with just under 400 kg over the front axle . Mine has a speed signal from the gearbox so varies assistance but still has a slightly dead feel straight ahead due to the gear drag but it's not a major issue for me , I use a mk2 escort 2.4 rack and overall I'm happy with for the money invested .
My other car has the agila system which is still Mitsubishi and wires up the same but uses a clutch so should feel a bit better , same ratio rack but is front engined so will be under a bit more pressure .
Mines not a competition car by any means but I've not felt the steering weight up to the point where I need to apply a lot of effort to steer the car more the opposite .
No doubt it would feel over assisted to most people but I can still feel what's going on at the front
My other car has the agila system which is still Mitsubishi and wires up the same but uses a clutch so should feel a bit better , same ratio rack but is front engined so will be under a bit more pressure .
Mines not a competition car by any means but I've not felt the steering weight up to the point where I need to apply a lot of effort to steer the car more the opposite .
No doubt it would feel over assisted to most people but I can still feel what's going on at the front
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff