RE: Megane Renaultsport 275 Trophy-R
Discussion
kikiturbo said:
in various markets SEAT is marketing the cupra as "fastest FWD in the world" without actually providing any proof whatsoever of it's numbers, let alone the real spec of the car. Subru did something similar with tommi makinen and STI by making a car put togeather from various japanese market and STI homologation parts... and did a "record run". At least that time we had a video... So, I am calling SEAT liers. In all relevant tests, normal megane 265 is faster on the track than a stock cupra
Renault, on the other hand, made the R,provided a full spec, did the record, and you can actually buy it. Kudos to that...
It's still BS, but using different tactics. SEAT could reply by saying they are about to release a Leon with Veyron engine that can go much faster than the Megane. Only problem is it costs £20m. Does that make the Leon better the Megane? Renault, on the other hand, made the R,provided a full spec, did the record, and you can actually buy it. Kudos to that...
This Megane is £10k more than the Leon Seat used. All that money buys you a few seconds. Spend that money on the Leon and it'll probably go quicker still. Give both manufacturers the same target list price and then compare. If you don't do that then comparisons are as pointless as the lap times.
menoy said:
hondansx said:
As soon as you remove the rear seats from a hot hatch, it becomes pointless.
Why? I've been driving hatchbacks for most of my motoring life - pretty safe to say the number of times I've been in need of more rear space (or a more practical layout) outnumbers those when I've needed the two/three additional seats. hondansx said:
The point is, if you limit yourself to two seats, why bother getting a hatchback? I am massive hot hatch fan and Renault fan because they do everything, but if you take away 'the point' (i.e. sports car performance yet can carry your family) then why wouldn't you just get a (RWD) sports car to begin with?
Find me a RWD sports car with this level of performance, brand new with warranty at the same price point to make this arguement justified?hondansx said:
The point is, if you limit yourself to two seats, why bother getting a hatchback? I am massive hot hatch fan and Renault fan because they do everything, but if you take away 'the point' (i.e. sports car performance yet can carry your family) then why wouldn't you just get a (RWD) sports car to begin with?
Who says the hatchback space you need is for passengers? When I had a CTR a few years ago I can count on one hand how many times I had rear passengers. The rear seats were almost always folded down though, firstly for improved centre of gravity (obviously) and the other because I used to carry lots of kit. I couldn't have done that in an S2000.jonjay said:
dukebox9reg said:
The difference is that Renault say they have removed option A and B and fitted C and D to do the record. SEAT removed the AC (which weighs a lot and causes drag on the engine) and fitted bits not actually available on the car.
Regardless of a 'performance Pack' coming out in the future they fudged the numbers. Whos to say the engine didnt have an 'optimised' map aswell. Hey the Renault might have done.
This is the issue with these comparisons and the manufacturers have to come across as infallible to be seen a credible. SEAT failed.
I agree though this time as per my last post is slightly hollow. I want to know what a standard Trophy with the options ticked can do. That's a genuine comparison.
The difference is SEAT had a full retail interior. In fact everything on the SEAT car has come from the main production line. Furthermore SEAT have said they will be releasing the performance pack so why the negativity? At the end of the day its brakes, wheels and tyres, not an out of the norm upgrade seeing at majority of the manufacturers out there do this. Regardless of a 'performance Pack' coming out in the future they fudged the numbers. Whos to say the engine didnt have an 'optimised' map aswell. Hey the Renault might have done.
This is the issue with these comparisons and the manufacturers have to come across as infallible to be seen a credible. SEAT failed.
I agree though this time as per my last post is slightly hollow. I want to know what a standard Trophy with the options ticked can do. That's a genuine comparison.
What Renault have done is built a 'race' car that to beat a mass produced hot hatch.
Basing your arguement on an AC unit [please bear in mind the AC unit can be switched off completely so "no" load on the engine] which was removed is very weak justification. Also lets not base this discussion is IF they had remap or not. No one ever really knows.
As I keep saying I want to see the Trophy's time, not that fussed about the R as I will never buy a hatch missing seats for starters.
Wonder if the next Megane will pull off the same trick as the current first gen RS in beating the previous R round the Ring.
kambites said:
Nope, I still don't see the point in a front engined, FWD hatchback with the rear seats removed and the boot full of roll cage. I'll have a sports car please.
What 'sports car' would you buy for the same money as a brand new Megane 275 Trophy?You wouldn't buy anything new that would touch it, so you're buying something used.
What used car for 30(ish) thousand pounds would you buy if you wanted a car you could go to the shops in then blitz round a track and then drive home?
SonicHedgeHog said:
kikiturbo said:
in various markets SEAT is marketing the cupra as "fastest FWD in the world" without actually providing any proof whatsoever of it's numbers, let alone the real spec of the car. Subru did something similar with tommi makinen and STI by making a car put togeather from various japanese market and STI homologation parts... and did a "record run". At least that time we had a video... So, I am calling SEAT liers. In all relevant tests, normal megane 265 is faster on the track than a stock cupra
Renault, on the other hand, made the R,provided a full spec, did the record, and you can actually buy it. Kudos to that...
It's still BS, but using different tactics. SEAT could reply by saying they are about to release a Leon with Veyron engine that can go much faster than the Megane. Only problem is it costs £20m. Does that make the Leon better the Megane? Renault, on the other hand, made the R,provided a full spec, did the record, and you can actually buy it. Kudos to that...
This Megane is £10k more than the Leon Seat used. All that money buys you a few seconds. Spend that money on the Leon and it'll probably go quicker still. Give both manufacturers the same target list price and then compare. If you don't do that then comparisons are as pointless as the lap times.
Renault dont sell the numbers to let them fight square on with prices. If the VW group only knocked out the same volume as Renault etc their margins would be a lot worse and would have to raise their sticker price or take a knock on their profit. The VW group has massive buying power with suppliers. Renault wont have. One reason for the price anyway. At least youll get 4 years servicing and warranty with the Renault.
Have to say though if you are into tuning, the support out there is huge for VW compared to Renault in the UK. APR, AMD, Revo as the big 3. Renault has K-Tec and they definitely have there haters.
kambites said:
Butter Face said:
What 'sports car' would you buy for the same money as a brand new Megane 275 Trophy?
An Elise, probably. Or failing that I'd take a GT86 even if it is (probably quite a lot) slower around a racing track that I'll almost certainly never drive it on.
The GT86 would be slower in every situation possible. And the rear seats in those are crap anyway.
hondansx said:
The point is, if you limit yourself to two seats, why bother getting a hatchback? I am massive hot hatch fan and Renault fan because they do everything, but if you take away 'the point' (i.e. sports car performance yet can carry your family) then why wouldn't you just get a (RWD) sports car to begin with?
completely agree. SonicHedgeHog said:
It's still BS, but using different tactics. SEAT could reply by saying they are about to release a Leon with Veyron engine that can go much faster than the Megane. Only problem is it costs £20m. Does that make the Leon better the Megane?
This Megane is £10k more than the Leon Seat used. All that money buys you a few seconds. Spend that money on the Leon and it'll probably go quicker still. Give both manufacturers the same target list price and then compare. If you don't do that then comparisons are as pointless as the lap times.
besides the fact that you CAN't buy that seat, it is quite unclear as to what exact parts were on that leon (hence we do not know what kind of price difference we are talking about here.. )...so I call all their marketing a load of BS regardless.. This Megane is £10k more than the Leon Seat used. All that money buys you a few seconds. Spend that money on the Leon and it'll probably go quicker still. Give both manufacturers the same target list price and then compare. If you don't do that then comparisons are as pointless as the lap times.
While I do find all this p%^&ck waiving a bit pointless, I do congratulate renault for still producing a hard core car...
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