Fancy a laugh? trying buying a car......
Discussion
Got a call from my niece to help them look at/buy a car this weekend. They had spotted a possible car at a local dealer so off we went.
Upon arrival we get greeted by the stereo-typical salesman complete with dodgy loafers who tried steering us away from the car "to get some details and discuss finance" - we hadn't even looked at the car yet!
So after rejecting his kindly advances we finally got to see the car which although we had called ahead early in the morning to let them know we were coming was parked behind another car. The car looked OK bar someone who used tippex as a touch up paint so we asked about the paperwork. The 2 owners was actually 2 previous so was currently sitting on 3 and a time based service was missing from the book but had been serviced within the last 5,000 miles so was happy to let go as the car only had 29,000 miles on it. All looked OK so requested a short test drive to make sure it went stopped, etc. The response? "you can't drive it as its blocked in." - I suggested he moved the car in front and simply drive the car we wanted out to which he replied that they were short staffed (3 of them wandering around) and would have to come back during the week. Bearing in mind we had already rung well in advance i was quite gob smacked at the lack of service this guy was giving. I even offered to move the cars myself and take all of 5 minutes to extract the car which again was met with refusal. But then, amazingly, if we put a deposit down and agreed a deal we could take it out in about 15 minutes! I politely turned him down as i don't tend to buy cars that i haven't driven, especially not from a dealer.
This then started the whole finance/payment conversation and I must admit this guy was a maths genius as he knew he couldn't meet the required payment budget over 3 years but could over 4 - all without a calculator! The last straw for me was when I asked the cash price so that we can sort our own finance out. On a £13,000 car I would expect a bit of haggle room, £500 the target, anymore a bonus. Off he went to his little room and came back 5 minutes later to say he could take £100 off the screen price and not a penny more as he only had £200 in it. He then told us he wouldn't let us drive the car as we couldn't afford it and we would just fall in love with it - what a bell-end! At this point we walked - paperwork not matching, no test drive and that crap = no sale!
I know they have to make money, I know they have bills to pay, but i wasn't born yesterday and any dealer with that low margins won't be a dealer for long. I was a dealer for a couple of years so I know the game but you can't kid a kidder!!
Its not rocket science, be open and honest in your descriptions, let people view the car, let them fall in love with it and chances are they will find a way to buy it.
Went to another dealer and had that exact experience with a sensible conversation, allowed to look over the car as much as we wanted, a test drive and a short negotiation which both parties were happy with. Car bought!
rant over
Upon arrival we get greeted by the stereo-typical salesman complete with dodgy loafers who tried steering us away from the car "to get some details and discuss finance" - we hadn't even looked at the car yet!
So after rejecting his kindly advances we finally got to see the car which although we had called ahead early in the morning to let them know we were coming was parked behind another car. The car looked OK bar someone who used tippex as a touch up paint so we asked about the paperwork. The 2 owners was actually 2 previous so was currently sitting on 3 and a time based service was missing from the book but had been serviced within the last 5,000 miles so was happy to let go as the car only had 29,000 miles on it. All looked OK so requested a short test drive to make sure it went stopped, etc. The response? "you can't drive it as its blocked in." - I suggested he moved the car in front and simply drive the car we wanted out to which he replied that they were short staffed (3 of them wandering around) and would have to come back during the week. Bearing in mind we had already rung well in advance i was quite gob smacked at the lack of service this guy was giving. I even offered to move the cars myself and take all of 5 minutes to extract the car which again was met with refusal. But then, amazingly, if we put a deposit down and agreed a deal we could take it out in about 15 minutes! I politely turned him down as i don't tend to buy cars that i haven't driven, especially not from a dealer.
This then started the whole finance/payment conversation and I must admit this guy was a maths genius as he knew he couldn't meet the required payment budget over 3 years but could over 4 - all without a calculator! The last straw for me was when I asked the cash price so that we can sort our own finance out. On a £13,000 car I would expect a bit of haggle room, £500 the target, anymore a bonus. Off he went to his little room and came back 5 minutes later to say he could take £100 off the screen price and not a penny more as he only had £200 in it. He then told us he wouldn't let us drive the car as we couldn't afford it and we would just fall in love with it - what a bell-end! At this point we walked - paperwork not matching, no test drive and that crap = no sale!
I know they have to make money, I know they have bills to pay, but i wasn't born yesterday and any dealer with that low margins won't be a dealer for long. I was a dealer for a couple of years so I know the game but you can't kid a kidder!!
Its not rocket science, be open and honest in your descriptions, let people view the car, let them fall in love with it and chances are they will find a way to buy it.
Went to another dealer and had that exact experience with a sensible conversation, allowed to look over the car as much as we wanted, a test drive and a short negotiation which both parties were happy with. Car bought!
rant over
V8forweekends said:
Only thing worse than that was ex-wife's experience trying to buy a brand new Mercedes. I'd have walked out, but it was her money, her car and she was happy to be treated like crap so she could get the car.....
We had a similar experience. Made an appointment to view a 6 month old C Class for the other half. When we arrived the car wasn't there and the only other car they had was 'dirty'. I told him I didn't really mind the dirt, which was more likely a light dusting but it was a flat refusal. They were very happy to waste lots of out time discussing finance though. Long story short she bought an Audi a week later. They don't seem to get this selling thing some of them?
I expect that most dealers do this because it works with most people.
The skill is presumably working out (which shouldn't be that hard) that you aren't dealing with an idiot and dropping all the crap.
I have had people say things like "If you buy it outright, you'll lose money because of depreciation". What? Really? Rather than making use of the depreciation fairies that turn up under every finance deal and magic it away?!
The skill is presumably working out (which shouldn't be that hard) that you aren't dealing with an idiot and dropping all the crap.
I have had people say things like "If you buy it outright, you'll lose money because of depreciation". What? Really? Rather than making use of the depreciation fairies that turn up under every finance deal and magic it away?!
I know your pain OP, we trawled around the local car supermarkets last year to get the wife something newer, a hateful experience.
We managed 1 test drive, but the car was horrible, just nasty and underpowered, the sales guy seemed to be ready to 'step outside' when I politely told him it wasn't for us.
Other places wouldn't let you in the door without a chaperon to hard sell you finance and insurance products, most of them had a 'unique' understanding of finance agreements, or in other words simply lied about the true cost, even after I told them I had worked in the finance industry for a decade they kept lying.
The best though was Carcraft, they had the exact make / model of car my wife currently has front and centre on their forecourt, only a year older, higher mileage and stinking of tobacco smoke - the guy was pushing so hard I asked him for a price for it, and a part-ex for the wife's car - the same car remember, only newer - £5000 to change he said with a completely straight face, my wife only paid £6k for hers as a year old car from a franchise dealer, 5 years ago.
I bought mine from a franchise SEAT dealer, the price was good, they were nice to deal with and honest and it came with a decent warranty for a 3 year old car.
We managed 1 test drive, but the car was horrible, just nasty and underpowered, the sales guy seemed to be ready to 'step outside' when I politely told him it wasn't for us.
Other places wouldn't let you in the door without a chaperon to hard sell you finance and insurance products, most of them had a 'unique' understanding of finance agreements, or in other words simply lied about the true cost, even after I told them I had worked in the finance industry for a decade they kept lying.
The best though was Carcraft, they had the exact make / model of car my wife currently has front and centre on their forecourt, only a year older, higher mileage and stinking of tobacco smoke - the guy was pushing so hard I asked him for a price for it, and a part-ex for the wife's car - the same car remember, only newer - £5000 to change he said with a completely straight face, my wife only paid £6k for hers as a year old car from a franchise dealer, 5 years ago.
I bought mine from a franchise SEAT dealer, the price was good, they were nice to deal with and honest and it came with a decent warranty for a 3 year old car.
As someone who used to work sales at a main dealer,
Would get in big sh!t if we let someone test drive before details were taken.
Although, if you had called ahead I would have taken your details on the phone, and had the car cleaned/fueled and ready to drive. If wash person was busy I would have at least given it a going over myself.
Would get in big sh!t if we let someone test drive before details were taken.
Although, if you had called ahead I would have taken your details on the phone, and had the car cleaned/fueled and ready to drive. If wash person was busy I would have at least given it a going over myself.
The Crack Fox said:
Perhaps beacuse so many (but not all) car salesmen are poorly educated chimps on a tiny wage and commission scheme who are under huge pressure to sell sell sell because if they miss their target this month they'll get the sack?
In which case, having a 30K (then) brand new car ready to test drive as promised and arranged (yes - an appointment!) would seem a logical way not to get fired? Surely the best idea would have been to remove obstacles to purchase, not place them in the way?mattman said:
At this point we walked - paperwork not matching, no test drive and that crap = no sale!
I know they have to make money, I know they have bills to pay, but i wasn't born yesterday and any dealer with that low margins won't be a dealer for long. I was a dealer for a couple of years so I know the game but you can't kid a kidder!!
Its not rocket science, be open and honest in your descriptions, let people view the car, let them fall in love with it and chances are they will find a way to buy it.
My guess would be that there's something wrong with the car. You seemed to have some idea of what you were doing so the salesman sees a lot of hassle on the horizon. Best to get rid of you.I know they have to make money, I know they have bills to pay, but i wasn't born yesterday and any dealer with that low margins won't be a dealer for long. I was a dealer for a couple of years so I know the game but you can't kid a kidder!!
Its not rocket science, be open and honest in your descriptions, let people view the car, let them fall in love with it and chances are they will find a way to buy it.
At £13K, with so much iffy about the car you should have walked anyway, and crossed that dealership off your list of places to ever visit again.
meemperor said:
As someone who used to work sales at a main dealer,
Would get in big sh!t if we let someone test drive before details were taken.
Although, if you had called ahead I would have taken your details on the phone, and had the car cleaned/fueled and ready to drive. If wash person was busy I would have at least given it a going over myself.
I see nothing wrong with taking contact/address details - but trying to agree finance terms and budget on a car i've yet to see was pushing it a bit! Would get in big sh!t if we let someone test drive before details were taken.
Although, if you had called ahead I would have taken your details on the phone, and had the car cleaned/fueled and ready to drive. If wash person was busy I would have at least given it a going over myself.
guess the internet has made life easier as people are more willing to purchase unseen perhaps? but i'm old school and like to see/touch/feel what i'm buying
often wondered if some dealerships would be better off employing 30+/middle aged staff on a slightly higher basic/lower comms rate who are able to hold a conversation, don't wear shiny suits, have attitude and are generally more helpful? after all that seems to be the type of people we usually buy from
yonex said:
V8forweekends said:
Only thing worse than that was ex-wife's experience trying to buy a brand new Mercedes. I'd have walked out, but it was her money, her car and she was happy to be treated like crap so she could get the car.....
We had a similar experience. Made an appointment to view a 6 month old C Class for the other half. When we arrived the car wasn't there and the only other car they had was 'dirty'. I told him I didn't really mind the dirt, which was more likely a light dusting but it was a flat refusal. They were very happy to waste lots of out time discussing finance though. Long story short she bought an Audi a week later. They don't seem to get this selling thing some of them?
I've come across good and bad sales staff in the past few months I've been looking. All nice people, bar one BMW salesman who spent the entire time slagging off the other cars I'm looking at instead of trying to sell me his own wares. I guess, like any business, there are those that are naturals and those that won't last long. Ironically, one of the best I came across was Merc in Edinburgh! Shame the A45 is so overpriced and they wouldn't budge more than £500 on the deal or I'd have signed up for one. VW were the more hopeless. Nice guy but phone calls never got returned, e-mails never got replied to. In the end, I sent three e-mails asking if he got the one before those regarding figures and never got a single reply so I just gave up. Generally, the premium brands do tend to be better despite those issues. Jag and Alfa, locally, are both superb, and I had a 1/2 hour long conversation with a Honda dealer about the history of Type R and got sent a DVD despite them not having anything to sell me for nearly a year!
Edited by Ali_T on Monday 30th June 14:27
I had a nice experience when I got my new car a couple of months ago.
Turned up, walked in and was seen within five minutes, offered a hot drink while I waited.
Spoke to a bloke, said what I was looking for (nothing exciting at all, Corsa), ideally I wanted the 1.0 as it was cheaper, however as it didn't come with adjustable seats, and I didn't fit, that had to change.
In the end I ended up with what I wanted (and suited me), pain free, with £500 knocked off without much trouble. The extras weren't forced down me, the only one I went for in the end was the gap insurance, and got £30 of fuel when I paid for £25. Can't complain.
The car is s
t to drive compared to my old 528i though! But getting double the mpg when I'm doing 400 miles a week, I had to.
I would go back there again.
Turned up, walked in and was seen within five minutes, offered a hot drink while I waited.
Spoke to a bloke, said what I was looking for (nothing exciting at all, Corsa), ideally I wanted the 1.0 as it was cheaper, however as it didn't come with adjustable seats, and I didn't fit, that had to change.
In the end I ended up with what I wanted (and suited me), pain free, with £500 knocked off without much trouble. The extras weren't forced down me, the only one I went for in the end was the gap insurance, and got £30 of fuel when I paid for £25. Can't complain.
The car is s
t to drive compared to my old 528i though! But getting double the mpg when I'm doing 400 miles a week, I had to. I would go back there again.
ORD said:
The skill is presumably working out (which shouldn't be that hard) that you aren't dealing with an idiot and dropping all the crap.
Similar recently.The car was about what we wanted and the price was about right (with the usual expected haggle). Spec wasn't quite right, but I'm aware I'm not buying new so one must be flexible.
Made appointment, turned up.
Battery dead (ok, punters leave lights on)
Fire it up, and leave us to poke around. We poke around. It's pretty good to be honest, a few little bits but nothing that's ringing alarm bells.
So, ask for a drive.
Get introduced to the man who will "take some details".
Rapidly discover that details involve agreeing finance and pushing a warranty.
Politely ask to drive the car first please.
Get told that they absolutely don't do test drives until I've bought the car.
I thank them for their time and leave.
They can run their business any way they like, and clearly it works because they had lots of stock and were turning over cars very fast.
It's not the way we buy cars, and there are plenty more out there.
V8forweekends said:
In which case, having a 30K (then) brand new car ready to test drive as promised and arranged (yes - an appointment!) would seem a logical way not to get fired? Surely the best idea would have been to remove obstacles to purchase, not place them in the way?
Indeed. A while ago I thought I might be in the market for a new Renault. After the third main dealer failed to have a car ready for a pre-booked appointment and test drive, I gave up and bought the alternative make of car I had in mind. I will never darken the door of a Renault dealership again.V8forweekends said:
Only thing worse than that was ex-wife's experience trying to buy a brand new Mercedes. I'd have walked out, but it was her money, her car and she was happy to be treated like crap so she could get the car.....
I was asked to leave a Mercedes dealership when I said you have got to be F888ing kidding when presented some daft service bill and the car was still not right, the whole ML thing just did not work for meHad a similar story with a local Audi dealer, went to look at a new A5 a few years ago, sales guy was desperate to sell me one they had in stock, I wanted a different model.. This went on for a few weeks of phone calls, forgetting what car I had and wanted to trade in.
Eventually went and bought a porker..
However, there was a funny upside to this, last year OH was thinking about changing her motor, she fancied either and X3 or Q5, didn't like the X3 so ended up back at said Audi dealer, receptionist asked us to wait and "x" would be over shortly, it was the same useless sales guy, my OH doesn't hold her punches and informed the poor girl how useless he was and we rather have another sales assistant, the look on her face was a picture and she then had to tell the sales guy and the DP, they both looked in bemusement.
Still didn't buy a Q5 either.
Eventually went and bought a porker..
However, there was a funny upside to this, last year OH was thinking about changing her motor, she fancied either and X3 or Q5, didn't like the X3 so ended up back at said Audi dealer, receptionist asked us to wait and "x" would be over shortly, it was the same useless sales guy, my OH doesn't hold her punches and informed the poor girl how useless he was and we rather have another sales assistant, the look on her face was a picture and she then had to tell the sales guy and the DP, they both looked in bemusement.
Still didn't buy a Q5 either.
I've failed to buy lots of cars – despite being willing and able.
And I must look wealthy, because sales people never mention finance – they always seem to approach with the assumption that I'm paying outright (which I am).
Come to mention it, maybe that's why the others aren't interested in dealing with me – they sell finance first and cars second and realise that I'm not their target audience?
And I must look wealthy, because sales people never mention finance – they always seem to approach with the assumption that I'm paying outright (which I am).
Come to mention it, maybe that's why the others aren't interested in dealing with me – they sell finance first and cars second and realise that I'm not their target audience?
Had a very positive experience recently with the Ford dealership in Ipswich. All very relaxed and friendly.
No pressure at all when viewing - the salesman introduced himself, gave a card then left me to explore their cars for about 10 minutes before coming back to deal with any queries I had about the cars.
Called later that day to arrange a test drive for my other half (she's the one buying it..) and when we arrived, the car was moved to the reception area and ready to go. 2 minutes spent recording our details (and potential trade in) and copies of driving licenses and off we went.
Again, no pressure during the test drive or discussion afterwards - we were given a trade in value, a best price for the new car and asked if we needed finance. When we said no thanks, then moved straight on to warranty, gap & superguard - just explaining what they were, handing over a leaflet and telling us the prices. We left at that point to think about it and had a follow up call a couple of days later - again, polite and no pressure.
Two days after that, we had a follow up test drive (longer on different types of reads) and then were in the showroom signing the deal! No complaints from the salesman that we'd declined gap insurance. It was recorded on the sales documents that we'd been offered Ford finance & Gap cover but opted not to - have to problem with that.
It was an amazingly positive experience and worlds apart from my experience with Carland (took 3 hours to buy the car because i didn't want extra warranty or gap, tyre, paint, leather,etc insurances).
No pressure at all when viewing - the salesman introduced himself, gave a card then left me to explore their cars for about 10 minutes before coming back to deal with any queries I had about the cars.
Called later that day to arrange a test drive for my other half (she's the one buying it..) and when we arrived, the car was moved to the reception area and ready to go. 2 minutes spent recording our details (and potential trade in) and copies of driving licenses and off we went.
Again, no pressure during the test drive or discussion afterwards - we were given a trade in value, a best price for the new car and asked if we needed finance. When we said no thanks, then moved straight on to warranty, gap & superguard - just explaining what they were, handing over a leaflet and telling us the prices. We left at that point to think about it and had a follow up call a couple of days later - again, polite and no pressure.
Two days after that, we had a follow up test drive (longer on different types of reads) and then were in the showroom signing the deal! No complaints from the salesman that we'd declined gap insurance. It was recorded on the sales documents that we'd been offered Ford finance & Gap cover but opted not to - have to problem with that.
It was an amazingly positive experience and worlds apart from my experience with Carland (took 3 hours to buy the car because i didn't want extra warranty or gap, tyre, paint, leather,etc insurances).
I have to admit that I increasingly believe that car dealers (and lots of other trades for that matter – no picking on one profession here), are simply waiting for the “I saw you coming” punter. When a well informed punter turns up, asks difficult questions, likely to result in a lower margin/more work/a smidge of effort, they clam up, dodge the sale and wait for the dumber fish.
I recently travelled all the way to Sunderland to look at an “immaculate” vehicle. After numerous phone calls, discussion and a set of inviting photos, I figured it was worth the journey (Cheltenham-Durham). I’m sad to say that almost every aspect of the experience was disappointing – paintwork far from immaculate, “absolutely no MOT advisories”, er, except the two rear tyres… cruise control, which was on my must have list, sadly wasn’t on the car, despite the advert saying so, and finally a service book so crooked it makes the Nordschleife look like a drag-strip. They wanted top money and had apparently put a lot of work into the car to get it up to their (apparently high) standards. It took all of five minutes to realise I’d wasted a lot of time and money, but what blew me away was that it was on the website the following week for more money! Fine, they’d taxed it in anticipation of my driving away, as well as filled out the V5, incorrectly assuming that someone travelling five hours by train would drive away no matter what, so needed to get the spend on the tax back, but they did add £400…
The only real issue I have is that some mug will buy this car, probably for close to asking, as on the surface it looks OK. They will probably enjoy it, and have very few issues with it. But the fact that this muppet buys the car, meaning the salesman’s MO is vindicated and propagating further the idea that it’s OK to be dishonest or at least mildly fictional in the description and people will still spend money.
To put it another way, I’ll bet the less someone cares about buying a car, the easier they find the experience.
I recently travelled all the way to Sunderland to look at an “immaculate” vehicle. After numerous phone calls, discussion and a set of inviting photos, I figured it was worth the journey (Cheltenham-Durham). I’m sad to say that almost every aspect of the experience was disappointing – paintwork far from immaculate, “absolutely no MOT advisories”, er, except the two rear tyres… cruise control, which was on my must have list, sadly wasn’t on the car, despite the advert saying so, and finally a service book so crooked it makes the Nordschleife look like a drag-strip. They wanted top money and had apparently put a lot of work into the car to get it up to their (apparently high) standards. It took all of five minutes to realise I’d wasted a lot of time and money, but what blew me away was that it was on the website the following week for more money! Fine, they’d taxed it in anticipation of my driving away, as well as filled out the V5, incorrectly assuming that someone travelling five hours by train would drive away no matter what, so needed to get the spend on the tax back, but they did add £400…
The only real issue I have is that some mug will buy this car, probably for close to asking, as on the surface it looks OK. They will probably enjoy it, and have very few issues with it. But the fact that this muppet buys the car, meaning the salesman’s MO is vindicated and propagating further the idea that it’s OK to be dishonest or at least mildly fictional in the description and people will still spend money.
To put it another way, I’ll bet the less someone cares about buying a car, the easier they find the experience.
Half the problem seems (or at least what I found before leaving the trade) is the sales managers are so firmly stuck in the 80/90s for sellign cars, most seem to fail to uderstand that it onyl takes a second on the internet to get a deal.
So the few that do get it push the sales guys to simply get details and close them there and then beforfe even driving the car for fear of them buying online after leaving the site.
Ive even had it myself, agreed to match the price, drove them and sorted it all out for them only to find they bought on line "because it was easier" what easier than picking the phone up holding the exact same credit card you just used online?
So to a certain extent its punters that cause this pushiness sometimes.
It will all end badly though as main dealers have no option but to withold test drives for fear of deals going to the internet. I imagine the future will be no dealerships just test drive centres attached to repair centres.
So the few that do get it push the sales guys to simply get details and close them there and then beforfe even driving the car for fear of them buying online after leaving the site.
Ive even had it myself, agreed to match the price, drove them and sorted it all out for them only to find they bought on line "because it was easier" what easier than picking the phone up holding the exact same credit card you just used online?
So to a certain extent its punters that cause this pushiness sometimes.
It will all end badly though as main dealers have no option but to withold test drives for fear of deals going to the internet. I imagine the future will be no dealerships just test drive centres attached to repair centres.
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