The Automatic Gearbox And Its Failings
Discussion
.bennyboysvuk said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I didn't think it was possible Ben but I certainly think you hate yours even more than I do!
You may be right. I wrote a list earlier with 23 items on it that annoy me about the car. They're nearly all things that probably wouldn't frustrate anyone that didn't have an interest in cars though. I really feel that a Mondeo for half the price would do just as good a job as the 330 and possibly better it in the handling department.bennyboysvuk said:
That's interesting, I'm trying to recall a drive that I did back in the wet one night in winter when I was trying to provoke the back a little. It took a lot of effort and the right radius of corner to get the chassis set up to even get the back moving, let alone getting the wheels spinning in a straight line.
So you're saying you can't slide the tail (out of a second gear corner, for example) either? 256BHP should be enough even with wide tyres. Can you do a doughnut in it (obviously off the public highway for any professionally-offended dorks that may be reading)? I'm certain that you can do this in a manual 330i. Have a look at this for a quick example (that's a 325i).bennyboysvuk said:
Interesting that you can use it in a hooligan manner and get spin whereas I get no spin at all throughout 1st gear in a car with another 80hp. I tried a few things last night like holding both pedals down and lifting off the brake. It felt brutal to do, but didn't feel any different to pulling away going from brake to throttle and gave no wheelspin. I tried dropping the car from neutral into drive with some meaningful revs showing, but the 'box won't let me select drive if the revs are much higher than at tickover, so I had to put my foot on the foot brake again and wait for the revs to die down before selecting drive. The car feels like it's been intentionally shot in the foot by BMW. It won't dance in the dry whatever I try.
I wouldn't try to "neutral bomb"...as you say, it feels brutal and whilst I'd wheelspin a car etc. I wouldn't go that far unless it was a shed (we used to do stuff like that to scrap cars on a mate's farm when we were teenagers).sparks_E39 said:
E65Ross said:
Why are you guys so obsessed with wheelspin anyway?
With a set of rears costing nearly £400 I don't have much inclination to spin the wheels!Clivey said:
E65Ross said:
Why are you guys so obsessed with wheelspin anyway?
Because it's fun. Like the manual 'box. 
As Mark Donohue said: "If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower."
Secondly, what's that got to do with the gearbox? My mate can easily smoke the rears in his C63 AMG with its automatic gearbox.
E65Ross said:
There's a difference between having enough power to do it, and actually doing it. You don't see any racing drivers doing that.
You appear to have missed the point, which was that like the manual 'box, some people find wheelspin fun. No, neither are efficient (compared to a modern auto and not sliding/wheelspinning) and I wasn't suggesting that you can't do it with an auto.E65Ross said:
Secondly, what's that got to do with the gearbox? My mate can easily smoke the rears in his C63 AMG with its automatic gearbox.
Nothing. If you read the thread, I have been expressing the same opinion (that the 330i auto owner should be able to spin their wheels if they want to) E65Ross said:
I'm really surprised that even in 1st gear in the wet a 330i won't spin it's wheels. 2 reasons.... I know for a fact (having driven one) an E46 330i auto will, and my old man used to have a Merc CLK350 cab which had a 7 speed auto and 272bhp and that would also quite easily spin the wheels up. I can't see why the 330i wouldn't. My 745i can quite easily set the traction control light flickering, sure it has more power but it's got 275 section rear tyres and it's a big old b
d to move as well.
You're honestly saying that if it's wet and you are crawling along in 1st gear and nail the throttle it won't spin the wheels? If that's the case, are you therefore saying that it will accelerate at an identical rate in the wet as in the dry? In theory, I suppose you must be?
I'm surprised too - if I take off quickly off the line in my F10, especially in Sport mode, it very definitely spins the wheels. You can see the argument between the DSC and the wheels taking place, you even get a chirp of the tyres initially.d to move as well. You're honestly saying that if it's wet and you are crawling along in 1st gear and nail the throttle it won't spin the wheels? If that's the case, are you therefore saying that it will accelerate at an identical rate in the wet as in the dry? In theory, I suppose you must be?
Clivey said:
bennyboysvuk said:
That's interesting, I'm trying to recall a drive that I did back in the wet one night in winter when I was trying to provoke the back a little. It took a lot of effort and the right radius of corner to get the chassis set up to even get the back moving, let alone getting the wheels spinning in a straight line.
So you're saying you can't slide the tail (out of a second gear corner, for example) either? 256BHP should be enough even with wide tyres. Can you do a doughnut in it (obviously off the public highway for any professionally-offended dorks that may be reading)? I'm certain that you can do this in a manual 330i. Have a look at this for a quick example (that's a 325i).I guess I can paint lines, but with the front wheels instead of the rear. It reminds me of driving a Metro, except I had a manual Metro so it was more fun.
E65Ross said:
There's a difference between having enough power to do it, and actually doing it. You don't see any racing drivers doing that.
Secondly, what's that got to do with the gearbox? My mate can easily smoke the rears in his C63 AMG with its automatic gearbox.
Loads of F1 drivers spin up their wheels just as they're forming for the grid. They also spin the wheels at the start too (unintentionally though).Secondly, what's that got to do with the gearbox? My mate can easily smoke the rears in his C63 AMG with its automatic gearbox.
It's frustrating that a 320 manual can smoke its tyres yet my 330 auto with around 80hp more can't.
bennyboysvuk said:
E65Ross said:
There's a difference between having enough power to do it, and actually doing it. You don't see any racing drivers doing that.
Secondly, what's that got to do with the gearbox? My mate can easily smoke the rears in his C63 AMG with its automatic gearbox.
Loads of F1 drivers spin up their wheels just as they're forming for the grid. They also spin the wheels at the start too (unintentionally though).Secondly, what's that got to do with the gearbox? My mate can easily smoke the rears in his C63 AMG with its automatic gearbox.
It's frustrating that a 320 manual can smoke its tyres yet my 330 auto with around 80hp more can't.
jamieduff1981 said:
Why not buy a better car then?
Because I've only had it 6 months and the missus thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. She's getting a company car in a couple of months time though (not sure what the options will be yet) and we discussed selling the 330 at that stage. If the company car is large enough, then the 330 will go and I will drive the 120D that we have instead, which is a much, much more involving car to drive than the 330. If the company car ends up being a 1 series then we'll keep the 330 and I will no doubt start a thread discussing the merits of fitting M3 suspension arms and bushes to it, plus amendment of the coding using edibas since the warning gong in the 330 is an awful noise. I'd still have to live with the auto though, but I'd hope that it can be mapped to release full torque in 1st and 2nd (somebody mentioned on this thread that it might be limited).For me, the more heinous crime is the chronic understeer in the 3 series. Never mentioned by the fawning press but so bad it's almost dangerous. When I had a 320d for a few days, I explained to my wife that it will in fact go around a corner properly if you trail brake it in and then use a bit of throttle to balance it. Her perfectly sensible response was 'I'm hardly racing the thing! It should steer by the steering wheel'.
If I had reviewed it, I would have had a section in bold saying 'This car understeers like a pig unless you manage the weight transfers yourself' which I would have thought should be inconsistent with a 5 star rating.
Before someone shouts 'driving God', most of this driving was very sedate indeed. It will understeer at the kind of speeds a granny would drive it on A roads.
If I had reviewed it, I would have had a section in bold saying 'This car understeers like a pig unless you manage the weight transfers yourself' which I would have thought should be inconsistent with a 5 star rating.
Before someone shouts 'driving God', most of this driving was very sedate indeed. It will understeer at the kind of speeds a granny would drive it on A roads.
liner33 said:
As I mentioned earlier many cars use the throttle pedal as an input to the ecu with the latter making the decision on how much to actually open the engines throttle. I know my 370z will only open the throttle 70% maximum in first gear , and about 85-90% in second , to help support traction , that may well be the case with yours
Luckily this can be mapped out
It's also about torque management, arguably more so than traction which may well be a bit of marketing spin. The lowest/smallest gears are obviously the weakest. Luckily this can be mapped out
It costs money to fit a box that can handle the peak torque some engines can produce so manufacturers will fit as cheap a unit as possible that works for all their engine outputs and with the biggest engine they will use the fly by wire capability to program out the primary risks.
Your car, like my 130 and the 330s being discussed are pretty much running Fandango spec rubber. There is far more than is needed and this throws back a lot of additional strain into the box meaning more torque management is needed than if they were fitted with more relevant boots.
bennyboysvuk said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Why not buy a better car then?
Because I've only had it 6 months and the missus thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. She's getting a company car in a couple of months time though (not sure what the options will be yet) and we discussed selling the 330 at that stage. If the company car is large enough, then the 330 will go and I will drive the 120D that we have instead, which is a much, much more involving car to drive than the 330. If the company car ends up being a 1 series then we'll keep the 330 and I will no doubt start a thread discussing the merits of fitting M3 suspension arms and bushes to it, plus amendment of the coding using edibas since the warning gong in the 330 is an awful noise. I'd still have to live with the auto though, but I'd hope that it can be mapped to release full torque in 1st and 2nd (somebody mentioned on this thread that it might be limited).t and really lets the car down. It's so peaky and slow to respond to pedal inputs that you just can't enjoy that chassis properly without overcommitting to corners like an idiot.Ditch both and get something that's actually driving focused - a 1M, M135, M3 or perhaps even something from another manufacturer!
bennyboysvuk said:
Because I've only had it 6 months and the missus thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. She's getting a company car in a couple of months time though (not sure what the options will be yet) and we discussed selling the 330 at that stage. If the company car is large enough, then the 330 will go and I will drive the 120D that we have instead, which is a much, much more involving car to drive than the 330. If the company car ends up being a 1 series then we'll keep the 330 and I will no doubt start a thread discussing the merits of fitting M3 suspension arms and bushes to it, plus amendment of the coding using edibas since the warning gong in the 330 is an awful noise. I'd still have to live with the auto though, but I'd hope that it can be mapped to release full torque in 1st and 2nd (somebody mentioned on this thread that it might be limited).
Go to Ebay and buy a set of 318 or 320 wheels. Your tyres will then be half the price and the right ones for the car. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff