Hyundai or Kia. What`s the catch.
Discussion
If they really want to be taken seriously and compete with the likes of Ford, Vauxhall and Volkswagen, who offer quite interesting stuff like the Scirocco and Astra GTC, they need to offer something that people who are interested in cars want rather than something people who aren't interested in cars buy with the same cold hearted logic they apply to choosing kitchen appliances.
Having said that, they're doing quite well with the functional stuff because plenty of people see cars as just tools. They have a better business proposition than Infiniti who've come to the UK with bland cars and a badge no one aspires to and are competing with the likes of BMW and Audi. A diesel 5 Series or A6 is hardly PH worthy and probably an Infiniti is equally good but will your average person differentiate an Infiniti from a Korean car costing half the price?
Having said that, they're doing quite well with the functional stuff because plenty of people see cars as just tools. They have a better business proposition than Infiniti who've come to the UK with bland cars and a badge no one aspires to and are competing with the likes of BMW and Audi. A diesel 5 Series or A6 is hardly PH worthy and probably an Infiniti is equally good but will your average person differentiate an Infiniti from a Korean car costing half the price?
Blakewater said:
If they really want to be taken seriously and compete with the likes of Ford, Vauxhall and Volkswagen, who offer quite interesting stuff like the Scirocco and Astra GTC, they need to offer something that people who are interested in cars want rather than something people who aren't interested in cars buy with the same cold hearted logic they apply to choosing kitchen appliances.
They do manufacture the sorts of cars you describe, and offer them in other markets. It is just that their marketing department are savvy enough to know that people in the UK looking for those sorts of vehicles are not actually....Blakewater said:
interested in cars
....but interested in badges.Edited by r11co on Friday 18th July 23:28
Blakewater said:
If they really want to be taken seriously and compete with the likes of Ford, Vauxhall and Volkswagen, who offer quite interesting stuff like the Scirocco and Astra GTC, they need to offer something that people who are interested in cars want rather than something people who aren't interested in cars buy with the same cold hearted logic they apply to choosing kitchen appliances.
That's a very old and exhausted cliché. The Kia Optima is a great-looking car and i'd much rather have one over the 'usual suspects'.
As for the Astra and Scirocco mentioned, the (stupidly named) Pro Cee'd outstyles them both:
I can't vouch for Hyundai in the same way though as all the cars of their current range look like Peugeot or Toyota immitators, but Kia definitely are interested in being taken seriously as a decent car manufacturer.
BarbaricAvatar said:
I can't vouch for Hyundai in the same way though as all the cars of their current range look like Peugeot or Toyota immitators, but Kia definitely are interested in being taken seriously as a decent car manufacturer.
Hyundai owns Kia so they are the same manufacturer in effect I guess.I used to live in Hyundai city where they are based in Korea and they make all sorts of good looking models we don't see in the UK.
Think Hyundai/Kia sold over 7 million cars globally in 2011, so they are a very serious player these days.
MissChief said:
HaloGen8 said:
Debaser said:
It's a shame they don't sell this in the UK.
What is this?I do think those Kia Optima (?) look really slick and look a quality car. Very sleek.
Don't forget it's also RWD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Genesis_Coupe
At the moment, I think that their engines (at least in the UK - thanks mostly to emissions regs and taxation) are holding them back.
Neither Kia nor Hyundai offer a similar combination of performance and (claimed) economy to zee German equivalents. The Optima, for example, is a really good looking car, but that 1.7 diesel only produces 130bhp and yet emits 128 fairy farts per km.
Now look at the Audi, BMW, Merc equivalents - 160 to 180bhp and almost all are now under 120g/km.
The carbons make a big difference to company car drivers in terms of tax, which means we're in the bizarre situation where it's usually cheaper to have a 3 Series or A4 as a company car than the Kia. Which, to purchase, costs 6 or 7 grand less!
I suspect that an Optima with, say, 170bhp emitting 109g/km would sell very well to fleets.
Neither Kia nor Hyundai offer a similar combination of performance and (claimed) economy to zee German equivalents. The Optima, for example, is a really good looking car, but that 1.7 diesel only produces 130bhp and yet emits 128 fairy farts per km.
Now look at the Audi, BMW, Merc equivalents - 160 to 180bhp and almost all are now under 120g/km.
The carbons make a big difference to company car drivers in terms of tax, which means we're in the bizarre situation where it's usually cheaper to have a 3 Series or A4 as a company car than the Kia. Which, to purchase, costs 6 or 7 grand less!
I suspect that an Optima with, say, 170bhp emitting 109g/km would sell very well to fleets.
BarbaricAvatar said:
Blakewater said:
If they really want to be taken seriously and compete with the likes of Ford, Vauxhall and Volkswagen, who offer quite interesting stuff like the Scirocco and Astra GTC, they need to offer something that people who are interested in cars want rather than something people who aren't interested in cars buy with the same cold hearted logic they apply to choosing kitchen appliances.
That's a very old and exhausted cliché. As for the Astra and Scirocco mentioned, the (stupidly named) Pro Cee'd outstyles them both:
I can't vouch for Hyundai in the same way though as all the cars of their current range look like Peugeot or Toyota immitators, but Kia definitely are interested in being taken seriously as a decent car manufacturer.
tali1 said:
But Hyundai have had a Scirroco rival in the Coupe and now Veloster.Kia have the Ceed GT hot hatch.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Velostertali1 said:
Did you forget to look at the photo when you posted that?
MonkeyMatt said:
If a sporty drive, high performance, luxurious interior or image or not high up on your list of requirements then there are no catches at all. They have certainly caught up with the Japanese and European brands, and in in some cases overtaken them. Not as cheap as they used to be though, so that may be seen as a 'catch'.
Therein lay the problem - you cant build quality cars cheaply, so the prices are up there with the mainstream brands, albeit at the lower end.Edited by MonkeyMatt on Thursday 17th July 19:25
Still no class leaders, but reasonable cars.
BarbaricAvatar said:
tali1 said:
Did you forget to look at the photo when you posted that?tali1 said:
BarbaricAvatar said:
tali1 said:
Did you forget to look at the photo when you posted that?HarryFlatters said:
1.7 litre diesel, if it's the same as the one I had as a hire car...
My thoughts on them; I've had quite a few i30s and i40s as hire cars, they they're absolutely and completely worthy. They go, stop and turn ok, they're cheap to buy, they have long warranties, they are comfortable to sit in, probably very reliable and do 50+ mpg without really thinking about it.
You won't bond with them though, and dynamically it's never going to stick it's hand down your pants and give you a semi, but if it's a cheap and reliable conveyance for schlepping up and down the motorways that you're looking for then it fits the bill.
This is exactly why I bought one when I had to get a car for work instead of a company car.My thoughts on them; I've had quite a few i30s and i40s as hire cars, they they're absolutely and completely worthy. They go, stop and turn ok, they're cheap to buy, they have long warranties, they are comfortable to sit in, probably very reliable and do 50+ mpg without really thinking about it.
You won't bond with them though, and dynamically it's never going to stick it's hand down your pants and give you a semi, but if it's a cheap and reliable conveyance for schlepping up and down the motorways that you're looking for then it fits the bill.
Edited by HarryFlatters on Friday 18th July 07:57
I have done 12k or so this year, no issues at all and get 40 ish round town up to mid50s at 70 on the motorway. If you can cope with the boredom 60+ mpg is available at a steady 60
Jonny_ said:
At the moment, I think that their engines (at least in the UK - thanks mostly to emissions regs and taxation) are holding them back.
Neither Kia nor Hyundai offer a similar combination of performance and (claimed) economy to zee German equivalents. The Optima, for example, is a really good looking car, but that 1.7 diesel only produces 130bhp and yet emits 128 fairy farts per km.
Now look at the Audi, BMW, Merc equivalents - 160 to 180bhp and almost all are now under 120g/km.
The carbons make a big difference to company car drivers in terms of tax, which means we're in the bizarre situation where it's usually cheaper to have a 3 Series or A4 as a company car than the Kia. Which, to purchase, costs 6 or 7 grand less!
I suspect that an Optima with, say, 170bhp emitting 109g/km would sell very well to fleets.
Very good point on the engines/C02. Vauxhall's latest Insignia is at 140bhp and free road tax, so that is where Kia/Hyundi should be aiming. Is the 1.7 engine based on Vauxhall's old 140bhp? If yes, then that is pretty old tech. Neither Kia nor Hyundai offer a similar combination of performance and (claimed) economy to zee German equivalents. The Optima, for example, is a really good looking car, but that 1.7 diesel only produces 130bhp and yet emits 128 fairy farts per km.
Now look at the Audi, BMW, Merc equivalents - 160 to 180bhp and almost all are now under 120g/km.
The carbons make a big difference to company car drivers in terms of tax, which means we're in the bizarre situation where it's usually cheaper to have a 3 Series or A4 as a company car than the Kia. Which, to purchase, costs 6 or 7 grand less!
I suspect that an Optima with, say, 170bhp emitting 109g/km would sell very well to fleets.
I nearly bought a Kia Ceed Estate, but for my budget, I was struggling to find any face lift models that didn't have very high miles, so I went back to the Ford C-Max, which actually had much less kit than the Kia.
If I had the cash available, I would have bought a Sportage for Mrs BakerStreet. Great looking cars, but at the moment they are a bit too pricey for us.
I actually think that Kia have struck gold with the Sportage. A friend has a fully loaded one with 4wd and he got it brand new for £27k. I spent a ew hours in it the other day and it was quiet and comfortable. Poor rear visibility means you need parking sensors and ideally a camera too.
bakerstreet said:
Is the 1.7 engine based on Vauxhall's old 140bhp? If yes, then that is pretty old tech.
I suspect it can trace it's lineage back to the Isuzu Circle L.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff