RE: Aston abandons Lagonda SUV

[DonkeyApple]

bobberz said:

Perhaps my favorite Lagonda, though, is this:

When I was buying the Overfinch classic I was shown round this car at Bramley's as the Cumberland grey had been the inspiration for the Overfinch. It was a beautiful car.

[FourWheelDrift]

bobberz said:

A modern take on this, done properly, could be quite nice:

I'd like it with more rear legroom though.

[Johnnytheboy]

I assume the problem was Aston Martin base all their cars on the same platform, and they just couldn't bend it enough to make an SUV.

[Mastodon2]

cullenster said:

Aston had a chance to build a spectacular Lagonda back in the mid 90s. But owners Ford wouldn't let them. Shame on you Ford.

So where's the spectacular one then? You seem to have posted a picture of a formless stheap.

I'm glad this stupid Lagona SUV is dead, and that it was rom a "different time" - a time when AML had more money than sense.

[tali1]

DonkeyApple said:

bobberz said:

Perhaps my favorite Lagonda, though, is this:

When I was buying the Overfinch classic I was shown round this car at Bramley's as the Cumberland grey had been the inspiration for the Overfinch. It was a beautiful car.

Few years back my brother was amazed to see to one turn up looking lost up the dead end rd where his garage is.
The occupants ?Doddery OAP couple who looked well into their 90s!

[anonymous-user]

Although an Aston Martin SUV does not really suit the brand, an SUV is the easiest way to make some profit. Sales of large executive saloons (S-Class, 7 Series, XJ etc.) are lower and margins smaller.

[RichB]

Mastodon2 said:

cullenster said:

Aston had a chance to build a spectacular Lagonda back in the mid 90s. But owners Ford wouldn't let them. Shame on you Ford.

So where's the spectacular one then? You seem to have posted a picture of a formless stheap.

I'm glad this stupid Lagona SUV is dead, and that it was rom a "different time" - a time when AML had more money than sense.

It may not be to your taste but at the time it was reported upon as a striking concept and widely acclaimed as a design. It's not entirely to my taste either but I much prefer concepts that are pushing the boundaries rather than manufactures churning out seemingly endless identical euroboxes in sizes S, M, L and XL.

[bobberz]

RichB said:

Mastodon2 said:

cullenster said:

Aston had a chance to build a spectacular Lagonda back in the mid 90s. But owners Ford wouldn't let them. Shame on you Ford.

So where's the spectacular one then? You seem to have posted a picture of a formless stheap.

I'm glad this stupid Lagona SUV is dead, and that it was rom a "different time" - a time when AML had more money than sense.

It may not be to your taste but at the time it was reported upon as a striking concept and widely acclaimed as a design. It's not entirely to my taste either but I much prefer concepts that are pushing the boundaries rather than manufactures churning out seemingly endless identical euroboxes in sizes S, M, L and XL.

I don't think that concept was pushing any boundaries at the time. Remember, that was the era where cars were very rounded. The trend can be traced to the Ford Taurus which came to epitomise the "jellybean" styling that was popular from the late '80s through the '90s, even up to the early 2000s.



In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that Lagonda concept was penned by American designers.

It reminds me of a couple pre-Veyron Bugatti concepts the EB218 and EB112:





Could the latter have been the inspiration for the Porsche Panamera?

The rounded lines also remind me of this later Ford concept, created during their "retro" phase that brought us the successful 2005-2014 Mustang and Ford GT supercar, as well as the less successful 2002-2005 Thunderbird. This concept was called the Forty-Nine. The name and design was an homage to the 1949 Ford. I've seen this concept in-person and, unlike the aforementioned Lagonda, IMO it is stunning.

[bobberz]

FourWheelDrift said:

bobberz said:

A modern take on this, done properly, could be quite nice:

I'd like it with more rear legroom though.

That lack of legroom is quite surprising, given how massive the car seems to be (I've never seen one in-person), plus given its (probable) competition, the Rolls-Royces and Bentleys of the era.

[RichB]

bobberz said:

.It reminds me of a couple pre-Veyron Bugatti concepts the EB218 and EB112:

Very interesting, I've never seen that concept before. I believe the Vignale was penned by Ian Callum's brother Moray.

Edited by RichB on Sunday 20th July 22:41

[myhandle]

RichB said:

ery interesting, I've never seen that concept before. I believe the Vignale was penned by Ian Callum's brother Moray.

Edited by RichB on Sunday 20th July 22:41

The top one is the EB218, which was indeed a concept, a 4 door version of the previous EB118 concept.

EB118 : https://www.google.com/search?q=bugatti+eb118&...

The lower car, the EB112, did actually make extremely limited production - no more than five cars I believe. Here is one of them, road registered and driving around:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMsx81jvggY

[danielj58]

Quickmoose said:

YEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
....yeah so they may lose out on some cash...but..retaining some dignity is worth more.
It'll be very interesting to see if this pays off.

Perhaps, but dignity doesnt keep the electricity on...

If theyve done their research and dont see a market for it then fairplay, but honestly i dont see that to be the case.

[V41LEY]

danielj58 said:

Quickmoose said:

YEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
....yeah so they may lose out on some cash...but..retaining some dignity is worth more.
It'll be very interesting to see if this pays off.

Perhaps, but dignity doesnt keep the electricity on...

If theyve done their research and dont see a market for it then fairplay, but honestly i dont see that to be the case.

Massive untapped market for this car here in the East. Doubt it would be a big seller in the UK so not many about to offend the purists. Not a looker so design tweaks necessary but that wouldn't bother the buyers. All about buying the label. Volume sales would help fund the good stuff.

[Zad]

In better news today...

(On Autocar so no doubt there will be a PH article too, I hope)

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/aston-m...



I'm not sure what this obsession is with a huge gaping mouth, but from the side at any rate that looks more Lagonda than the previous mess. Even if it is destined for China and the Middle East.

[DonkeyApple]

Zad said:

In better news today...

(On Autocar so no doubt there will be a PH article too, I hope)

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/aston-m...



I'm not sure what this obsession is with a huge gaping mouth, but from the side at any rate that looks more Lagonda than the previous mess. Even if it is destined for China and the Middle East.

'Styling cues come from the original Lagonda, which was designed by William Towns and launched in 1976.'

Original? Hmm.

[tali1]

Middle East invitation only - Roger Dudding will not be pleased!

[Clivey]

Amirhussain said:

How well has the Rapide sold? Aston needed this car, look how many Cayenne's Porsche has sold.

No, they really didn't. Not unless they were going to do it properly and make something we could proudly call an Aston / Lagonda. The concept shown was so hideous it looked like a blind 14-year-old work experience kid designed it by sticking an Aston grille on some Play-Doh.

DonkeyApple said:

As lovely as the Rapide is, it really serves no real purpose and that is why no one has bought any and they had to shut down the deal with Stayr and bring the small production to the UK.

I'd buy a Rapide but I'm not living in some third world hell hole, married to a bohemoth with two lumps of lard for offspring.

The Rapide was again about cutting corners. They knew they needed a big saloon at least for the key markets that were delivering sales to their competitors but they chose to squeeze something out on the cheap, using an existing platform and funnel the money instead to their pensions.

Actually, I completely agree with that.

[strummerville]

Everyone is comparing Aston with Porsche who obviously cashed in on the aggressive tank market. What about Ferrari? They haven't succumbed and are actually reducing production volume to gain exclusivity.

Maybe Aston should start a Burberry cap style range of cack a la Ferrari. Perhaps move into the same retail unit vacated by Lotus?

[DonkeyApple]

strummerville said:

Everyone is comparing Aston with Porsche who obviously cashed in on the aggressive tank market. What about Ferrari? They haven't succumbed and are actually reducing production volume to gain exclusivity.

Maybe Aston should start a Burberry cap style range of cack a la Ferrari. Perhaps move into the same retail unit vacated by Lotus?

The problem is that Ferrari is owned by a larger company. AM isn't. That does has massive ramifications for accessing the capital markets for expansion etc. Plus I think there is a strong case to argue that Ferrari is a more dominant global brand that has prospered hugely from the growing New World markets as the brand is a much more successful overt display of success.

Cars are becoming more and more expensive to put into production and unless you can access hundreds and hundreds of millions and also achieve economies of scale through enough volume then you will just die a slow, horrible death.

The problem AM have is that even if you assume over 50% margin on all sales when you look at the number of units AM sells per annum versus their liabilities or total value (based on most recent buy in) the numbers look really horrible. Really horrible. Add in the major shareholders showing a lack of willing for further capital injections and the volume fAilure of the Rapide, the inability to build their own power plants and the reversion to small, one off production runs to bring in short term cash flow and it's not good at all.

The two obvious solutions are to revert to being the halo brand of a multinational who benefits from the status elevation or to produce a product that can sell in bulk with enormous margins. The latter being the premium SUV, as unpalatable as that may be.

I don't believe anyone wants to see AM fail and I believe that most people love their products but if they don't acquire strong and consistent cash flows from the key buying markets by creating the suitable product they are kaput.

Personally, I believe they shelved the SUV not out of choice but because they haven't the money to develop anything that doesn't use their VH platform. It's good that they have managed to produce a bigger saloon on it and maybe if the ME sales go well it will transpire to have been a clever way to soft launch the Lagonda brand and build its name for the less sophisticated moneyed markets so that there is demand for the brand that will underwrite the outside investment needed to expand it as a proper business. Aston for GTs and sports cars and Lagondas for super premium saloons and SUVs.

[Clivey]

bobberz said:

The sharper, more angular lines of that seem to echo the recent Aston Zagato concepts (as seen recently at the Concorso d'Eleganza Villa d'Este in Lake Como), which I actually find quite attractive.

These look stunning.



If AM are to build an SUV, it needs to be at least as classy as the Range Rover. If it's not done in the right way, no matter how many millions they make, it will dilute the brand. Some manufacturers (BMW) do seem to be in a race to the bottom at the moment...at least from a car enthusiast's point of view.