Does car Air Con vary in hotter climates?
Discussion
ATG said:
The evaporator is the cold bit inside the fridge. Putting a fridge in the garage means the fridges radiator is sitting in cold air and is therefore more efficient.
True but be aware of this problem which is what the previous poster was alluding to:Which fridge freezers can defrost in a garage?
It’s combined fridge-freezers. If a combined fridge freezer has only one thermostat (or sensor), which is sited inside the fridge section, it is likely to be affected by this problem. If the ambient temperature of the room its placed in gets to around freezing, then the fridge thermostat is likely to shut off. When this happens on appliances with only one thermostat the freezer also shuts off. If the temperature remains cold for several hours then the fridge thermostat will not come back on.
It doesn’t need to because inside the fridge compartment will be plenty cold enough. In really cold weather it is possible for the fridge thermostat to stay off for a long time. Whilst ever the thermostat for the fridge remains off the compressor will stop running and the freezer will eventually start to warm up, at least to roughly the ambient temperature of the garage, which although cold, is not cold enough for frozen food.
As a rule of thumb I would say that if you can set separate temperatures for your fridge and the freezer section I would assume there are separate thermostats controlling the freezer and therefore this issue shouldn’t affect your appliance.
Aircon in general started to go downhill during the mid 2000's, when there was more of a focus on MPG and better efficiency. I noticed that compressor specs started to be reduced around that era. Buyers in general don't tend to notice quality of optional extras, only their presence. Mechanically savvy buyers welcome the better quality of options in premium brands, for example high capacity AC systems.
WRT refrigerant loss it is not via the seals but the hoses. Domestic refrigerant has hard lines and the compressor mounted on isolators, which is obviously not possible in a car.
WRT refrigerant loss it is not via the seals but the hoses. Domestic refrigerant has hard lines and the compressor mounted on isolators, which is obviously not possible in a car.
mwstewart said:
Aircon in general started to go downhill during the mid 2000's, when there was more of a focus on MPG and better efficiency. I noticed that compressor specs started to be reduced around that era. Buyers in general don't tend to notice quality of optional extras, only their presence. Mechanically savvy buyers welcome the better quality of options in premium brands, for example high capacity AC systems.
WRT refrigerant loss it is not via the seals but the hoses. Domestic refrigerant has hard lines and the compressor mounted on isolators, which is obviously not possible in a car.
Really? So compressors efficiency has been REDUCED to improve mpg? What a bizzare statement. Could you post data to prove that making a system LESS efficient would improve engine efficiency?WRT refrigerant loss it is not via the seals but the hoses. Domestic refrigerant has hard lines and the compressor mounted on isolators, which is obviously not possible in a car.
Thanks...
Cerbieherts said:
Really? So compressors efficiency has been REDUCED to improve mpg? What a bizzare statement. Could you post data to prove that making a system LESS efficient would improve engine efficiency?
Thanks...
A typical rude PH rude response. Please point out where I claimed that compressors have become less efficient. Thanks...
mwstewart said:
Aircon in general started to go downhill during the mid 2000's, when there was more of a focus on MPG and better efficiency. I noticed that compressor specs started to be reduced around that era..
Here ^ maybe? Not being rude at all. I just wanted some data.Old systems used R12, which is considered by people who know how these systems work to have superior cooling qualities to the later R134a introduced in 1992. However, early systems relied only on WOT input and a trinary switch for control. This didn't make them a better system, just less efficient.
Cerbieherts said:
Here ^ maybe? Not being rude at all. I just wanted some data.
Old systems used R12, which is considered by people who know how these systems work to have superior cooling qualities to the later R134a introduced in 1992. However, early systems relied only on WOT input and a trinary switch for control. This didn't make them a better system, just less efficient.
I wasn't referring to refrigerant. In the period when vehicle MPG/running cots became a major selling point but before there was a real focus on improving performance of engine ancillaries, A/C compressors were downsized and system capacity was lowered. This was part of the manufacturers strategy to achieve vehicle running (fuel) cost savings due to a reduction in parasitic drag on the powerplant. Old systems used R12, which is considered by people who know how these systems work to have superior cooling qualities to the later R134a introduced in 1992. However, early systems relied only on WOT input and a trinary switch for control. This didn't make them a better system, just less efficient.
It is only in the past few years as frictional losses have been optimised and 'on demand' ancillaries are more normal, we are once again beginning to see more consistent vent output temperatures at higher ambient temperatures, albeit now with less demand on the engine within certain operating ranges.
AdeTuono said:
kapiteinlangzaam said:
So far, I have concluded from this thread that
a) Aircon is definitely the same the world over.
and
b) Aircon is definitely different in hotter countries.
Thanks PH!
Anda) Aircon is definitely the same the world over.
and
b) Aircon is definitely different in hotter countries.
Thanks PH!
a) Aircon definitely needs servicing
and
b) Aircon definitely doesn't need servicing
a) aircon has variable output depending upon temperature
and
b) aircon doesn't have variable output just the fan speed increases
I'm not an aircon expert. I can tell you that the cars developed in Australia, for the Australian market perform hugely better than many imported European cars. By "hugely better" I mean they can maintain 21 deg C inside the car, even though it is an intensely sunny day, with a 40 deg C in the shade temperature.
Sheepshanks said:
I've had it from new and it's always been the same. It's a common complaint on Mercs that the a/c is never "icy" cold. It's adequate for the UK, I just struggle to believe the same system would be effective in places where towards 40C isn't unusual.
My E class was very good , once I had it regassed, it had lost 80% of the refrigerant in 5 years I had an E36 in Dubai and the A/C was hopeless. When I moaned at the dealer about it they shrugged (happens a lot in that part of that world) and replaced the carbon filter. Made no difference.
A year or two later I had an E36 in the UK. It also had crap A/C.
They were the same systems.
A year or two later I had an E36 in the UK. It also had crap A/C.
They were the same systems.
I work for one of the largest automotive thermal management companies in the world and we supply several million climate components and systems to the industry every year. Here's my perspective...
There is no simple answer that can be applied to all markets, all manufacturers and all models. Some manufacturers have global engineering specifications, some have regional, and some alter them dependent on the sales market(s) of the applications in question. Add to that, some models are localized, some are not, which can mean either the car itself, or at least certain components, might be different. This all applies to the components that we and other tier-1 suppliers provide, but there is then an additional variable in how the systems are calibrated i.e. compressor duty cycle, blower motor voltage at intermediate steps etc.
In short, some cars have the same systems around the world, some don't. Some have localized requirements, some don't. Some have localized supply, some don't. Some global applications are single sourced, some aren't.
The above is not only true for climate systems/HVAC, but pretty much any vehicle component you care to mention.
There is no simple answer that can be applied to all markets, all manufacturers and all models. Some manufacturers have global engineering specifications, some have regional, and some alter them dependent on the sales market(s) of the applications in question. Add to that, some models are localized, some are not, which can mean either the car itself, or at least certain components, might be different. This all applies to the components that we and other tier-1 suppliers provide, but there is then an additional variable in how the systems are calibrated i.e. compressor duty cycle, blower motor voltage at intermediate steps etc.
In short, some cars have the same systems around the world, some don't. Some have localized requirements, some don't. Some have localized supply, some don't. Some global applications are single sourced, some aren't.
The above is not only true for climate systems/HVAC, but pretty much any vehicle component you care to mention.
Woodrow123 said:
I work for one of the largest automotive thermal management companies in the world and we supply several million climate components and systems to the industry every year. Here's my perspective...
There is no simple answer that can be applied to all markets, all manufacturers and all models. Some manufacturers have global engineering specifications, some have regional, and some alter them dependent on the sales market(s) of the applications in question. Add to that, some models are localized, some are not, which can mean either the car itself, or at least certain components, might be different. This all applies to the components that we and other tier-1 suppliers provide, but there is then an additional variable in how the systems are calibrated i.e. compressor duty cycle, blower motor voltage at intermediate steps etc.
In short, some cars have the same systems around the world, some don't. Some have localized requirements, some don't. Some have localized supply, some don't. Some global applications are single sourced, some aren't.
The above is not only true for climate systems/HVAC, but pretty much any vehicle component you care to mention.
Do any manufacturers stand out as using better quality systems than others, or are they all roughly the same?There is no simple answer that can be applied to all markets, all manufacturers and all models. Some manufacturers have global engineering specifications, some have regional, and some alter them dependent on the sales market(s) of the applications in question. Add to that, some models are localized, some are not, which can mean either the car itself, or at least certain components, might be different. This all applies to the components that we and other tier-1 suppliers provide, but there is then an additional variable in how the systems are calibrated i.e. compressor duty cycle, blower motor voltage at intermediate steps etc.
In short, some cars have the same systems around the world, some don't. Some have localized requirements, some don't. Some have localized supply, some don't. Some global applications are single sourced, some aren't.
The above is not only true for climate systems/HVAC, but pretty much any vehicle component you care to mention.
Thankyou4calling said:
Whenever I'm in the USA my rental cars AC feels colder than my own car. This though is usually a US vehicle.
Do manufacturers change the AC spec on a model depending on its selling location. For instance will an S Class Mercedes sold in the Middle East have more powerful AC than the same model sold in the UK or Sweden as standard?
Yes. In a word. Do manufacturers change the AC spec on a model depending on its selling location. For instance will an S Class Mercedes sold in the Middle East have more powerful AC than the same model sold in the UK or Sweden as standard?
If a cars going to a hot country, they have a very powerful AC and lame heater. Likewise if a car is going to a cold country it'll have a powerful heater and almost no AC.
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