General consensus on long interval oil changes.
Discussion
TheEnd said:
Mave said:
So why do VAG engines, serviced to the manufacturer schedule, with the correct oil maintained at the right level, have a history of failing catastrophically at 100k miles or thereabout?
Is it really that common? This is quite a large motoring site and I've certainly heard of things like N75 valves needing to be replaced, and coil packs going, but I haven't heard about this engine apocalypse you are talking about.Megaflow said:
TheEnd said:
Mave said:
So why do VAG engines, serviced to the manufacturer schedule, with the correct oil maintained at the right level, have a history of failing catastrophically at 100k miles or thereabout?
Is it really that common? This is quite a large motoring site and I've certainly heard of things like N75 valves needing to be replaced, and coil packs going, but I haven't heard about this engine apocalypse you are talking about.Mave said:
Megaflow said:
TheEnd said:
Mave said:
So why do VAG engines, serviced to the manufacturer schedule, with the correct oil maintained at the right level, have a history of failing catastrophically at 100k miles or thereabout?
Is it really that common? This is quite a large motoring site and I've certainly heard of things like N75 valves needing to be replaced, and coil packs going, but I haven't heard about this engine apocalypse you are talking about.From looking into it, I can see a lot of Americans with the issue, and they apparently do 5000 mile intervals, and they are saying it is common on longitudinal mounted engines, but they don't see it on the transverse engines.
The US seems to find novel ways of breaking cars that Europe just can't manage, but based on what I have read, it looks more like an engine design problem, and not an oil problem.
The US seems to find novel ways of breaking cars that Europe just can't manage, but based on what I have read, it looks more like an engine design problem, and not an oil problem.
Mave said:
Megaflow said:
TheEnd said:
Mave said:
So why do VAG engines, serviced to the manufacturer schedule, with the correct oil maintained at the right level, have a history of failing catastrophically at 100k miles or thereabout?
Is it really that common? This is quite a large motoring site and I've certainly heard of things like N75 valves needing to be replaced, and coil packs going, but I haven't heard about this engine apocalypse you are talking about.I had mine from 5-8 years old with no issues. And in that time I ran it on the correct spec.
ETA: to add some more weight to this, I can walk into any motor factor and by the correct 5W/30 grade of oil for my car, but to find the one withy the correct ACEA A5/B5 specification is hard, only Castrol and Lucas make it.
Edited by Megaflow on Monday 21st July 21:56
St John Smythe said:
Mave said:
Megaflow said:
TheEnd said:
Mave said:
So why do VAG engines, serviced to the manufacturer schedule, with the correct oil maintained at the right level, have a history of failing catastrophically at 100k miles or thereabout?
Is it really that common? This is quite a large motoring site and I've certainly heard of things like N75 valves needing to be replaced, and coil packs going, but I haven't heard about this engine apocalypse you are talking about.I wrote my comment in response to the assertion "If an engine is serviced correctly and never allowed to run low on oil, putting aside special causes there is no reason why the mechanical of engine shouldn't keep running well beyond the 250k." Whether or not the internet blows things out of proportion, surely the fact that well maintained VAG 1.8T engines HAVE failed at ~100k miles due to oil degradation brings that assertion into question?
nottyash said:
TREMAiNE said:
Handbook says every 3,000 miles.
So I get it done every 3,000 mile.
Its not a long interval oil change though is it?So I get it done every 3,000 mile.
In my defence, I'm mighty tired and was talking to a colleague at the same time.
Mave said:
St John Smythe said:
Mave said:
Megaflow said:
TheEnd said:
Mave said:
So why do VAG engines, serviced to the manufacturer schedule, with the correct oil maintained at the right level, have a history of failing catastrophically at 100k miles or thereabout?
Is it really that common? This is quite a large motoring site and I've certainly heard of things like N75 valves needing to be replaced, and coil packs going, but I haven't heard about this engine apocalypse you are talking about.I wrote my comment in response to the assertion "If an engine is serviced correctly and never allowed to run low on oil, putting aside special causes there is no reason why the mechanical of engine shouldn't keep running well beyond the 250k." Whether or not the internet blows things out of proportion, surely the fact that well maintained VAG 1.8T engines HAVE failed at ~100k miles due to oil degradation brings that assertion into question?
Megaflow said:
Having had a mk1 Octavia vRS this sparked my curiosity. From my brief search it seems the issue is people using the wrong spec oil. By that I don't mean viscosity, I mean the specification. It needs to meet the correct API and or ACEA specification.
VW got stuffed (in court) for this in the US - it seemed to affect cars at random, but many where fully dealer serviced (so one assumes, although it may not be true) that the correct spec oil would have been used.St John Smythe said:
Mave said:
St John Smythe said:
Mave said:
Megaflow said:
TheEnd said:
Mave said:
So why do VAG engines, serviced to the manufacturer schedule, with the correct oil maintained at the right level, have a history of failing catastrophically at 100k miles or thereabout?
Is it really that common? This is quite a large motoring site and I've certainly heard of things like N75 valves needing to be replaced, and coil packs going, but I haven't heard about this engine apocalypse you are talking about.I wrote my comment in response to the assertion "If an engine is serviced correctly and never allowed to run low on oil, putting aside special causes there is no reason why the mechanical of engine shouldn't keep running well beyond the 250k." Whether or not the internet blows things out of proportion, surely the fact that well maintained VAG 1.8T engines HAVE failed at ~100k miles due to oil degradation brings that assertion into question?
I'm all for regular oil changes and change my car's oil sometimes more often that recommended but just to play devils advocate..
I was looking though a car auction catalogue earlier and a huge amount of cars hadn't been serviced regularly, let alone long life plans. Most of these cars were around or over the 100k mark, yet some had been serviced as little as twice, plus some going more than 60k between changes. Some of these diesels. Yet these cars, all different types, had reached these miles presumably ok with no maintenance. Just a thought.
Edit - how much life is actually left in these cars is a big question mark!!
I was looking though a car auction catalogue earlier and a huge amount of cars hadn't been serviced regularly, let alone long life plans. Most of these cars were around or over the 100k mark, yet some had been serviced as little as twice, plus some going more than 60k between changes. Some of these diesels. Yet these cars, all different types, had reached these miles presumably ok with no maintenance. Just a thought.
Edit - how much life is actually left in these cars is a big question mark!!
Sheepshanks said:
Megaflow said:
Having had a mk1 Octavia vRS this sparked my curiosity. From my brief search it seems the issue is people using the wrong spec oil. By that I don't mean viscosity, I mean the specification. It needs to meet the correct API and or ACEA specification.
VW got stuffed (in court) for this in the US - it seemed to affect cars at random, but many where fully dealer serviced (so one assumes, although it may not be true) that the correct spec oil would have been used.A good example of this is modern diesel oil, you can have the correct grade, but if you do not pick the correct specification, i.e. ultra low sulpher, you can poison the aftertreatment package. It won't do it straight away, it will take many years.
Cars are so complicated I wonder if the vast majority of people can be trusted to use them, there was a story on radio 2 this morning about somebody who abandoned his car because it told him it was on fire... err... no, the DAB radio told him it was playing Adele Fire...
:bangshead:
Megaflow said:
Cars are so complicated I wonder if the vast majority of people can be trusted to use them, there was a story on radio 2 this morning about somebody who abandoned his car because it told him it was on fire... err... no, the DAB radio told him it was playing Adele Fire...
I thought car's were getting more and more complicated to make them more user friendly? 
Dbest92 said:
I'm all for regular oil changes and change my car's oil sometimes more often that recommended but just to play devils advocate..
I was looking though a car auction catalogue earlier and a huge amount of cars hadn't been serviced regularly, let alone long life plans. Most of these cars were around or over the 100k mark, yet some had been serviced as little as twice, plus some going more than 60k between changes. Some of these diesels. Yet these cars, all different types, had reached these miles presumably ok with no maintenance. Just a thought.
Edit - how much life is actually left in these cars is a big question mark!!
I doubt older engines would tolerate it but modern engines are machined to much better tolerances so are probably less likely to wear if the oil isn't changed regularly. I'd say the oil filter is the limiting factor based on my 'extended oil use test' I was looking though a car auction catalogue earlier and a huge amount of cars hadn't been serviced regularly, let alone long life plans. Most of these cars were around or over the 100k mark, yet some had been serviced as little as twice, plus some going more than 60k between changes. Some of these diesels. Yet these cars, all different types, had reached these miles presumably ok with no maintenance. Just a thought.
Edit - how much life is actually left in these cars is a big question mark!!
Mave said:
St John Smythe said:
Mave said:
St John Smythe said:
Mave said:
Megaflow said:
TheEnd said:
Mave said:
So why do VAG engines, serviced to the manufacturer schedule, with the correct oil maintained at the right level, have a history of failing catastrophically at 100k miles or thereabout?
Is it really that common? This is quite a large motoring site and I've certainly heard of things like N75 valves needing to be replaced, and coil packs going, but I haven't heard about this engine apocalypse you are talking about.I wrote my comment in response to the assertion "If an engine is serviced correctly and never allowed to run low on oil, putting aside special causes there is no reason why the mechanical of engine shouldn't keep running well beyond the 250k." Whether or not the internet blows things out of proportion, surely the fact that well maintained VAG 1.8T engines HAVE failed at ~100k miles due to oil degradation brings that assertion into question?
I try and change it every 6k or so, full service every 12k.
A replacement turbo is £800 plus fitting, my turbo is 9 1/2 years old and has covered 126k.
I would rather not have a bill of nearly a grand so I try to keep it in good quality oil and change it.
For the ZF box, I have one in my D3. It used to be sealed for life, now ZF say change it every 75-100k or 50k if used in regular towing.
Mine gets changed next month.
A replacement turbo is £800 plus fitting, my turbo is 9 1/2 years old and has covered 126k.
I would rather not have a bill of nearly a grand so I try to keep it in good quality oil and change it.
For the ZF box, I have one in my D3. It used to be sealed for life, now ZF say change it every 75-100k or 50k if used in regular towing.
Mine gets changed next month.
Just throwing this in for discussion, not arguing it is the case. If you look around the unsanitary corners of the web (other car forums mostly) there is frequent reference to a SAE paper (number 2003-01-3119) which was a study by Ford and Concoco Philips. The study apparently says that too frequent oil changes can cause unnecessary wear to engines.
The theory behind it goes that new oil has a certain amount of additives/detergents to clean the inside of the engine somewhat. These are designed to be used, then break down and leave a nice cleaned engine running well with all the crud being caught by the filter. By changing too frequently you are effectively over-using these additives which isn't good for the engine.
I'd like to read the full paper to be convinced, but can understand the logic.
The theory behind it goes that new oil has a certain amount of additives/detergents to clean the inside of the engine somewhat. These are designed to be used, then break down and leave a nice cleaned engine running well with all the crud being caught by the filter. By changing too frequently you are effectively over-using these additives which isn't good for the engine.
I'd like to read the full paper to be convinced, but can understand the logic.
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