General consensus on long interval oil changes.
Discussion
OP I'm guessing you have a mini cooper s ? known flakey cam chain tensioners and love to drink oil which then being low doesn't help the tensioner, me personally in the same position has a mid term oil change just on the basis that it can't do any harm, and the price of a change is cheaper than a failure (though yours is still covered it may help later on as the tensioners can get blocked with debris due to over tight machined tolerance)
DKS said:
I dunno. Are these people belittling people for changing the oil too often the same people who are moaning about their engines using a litre every 1k miles or so?
For me, the engine should be treated as best as you can, not down to whether it's under warranty, or you're going to sell it to a friend or whatever. That's a NIMBY attitude.
I change mine around 4k or annually. But then all my cars have outlived their expected lifespan (14 to 26 years) and in some cases mileages (120k to 224k) and some are used well outside their design specs, so I don't think the recommendations really apply now.
Nope. Mine gets serviced every 12.5k as recommended by Ford, doesn't use a drop.For me, the engine should be treated as best as you can, not down to whether it's under warranty, or you're going to sell it to a friend or whatever. That's a NIMBY attitude.
I change mine around 4k or annually. But then all my cars have outlived their expected lifespan (14 to 26 years) and in some cases mileages (120k to 224k) and some are used well outside their design specs, so I don't think the recommendations really apply now.
DKS said:
I dunno. Are these people belittling people for changing the oil too often the same people who are moaning about their engines using a litre every 1k miles or so?
For me, the engine should be treated as best as you can, not down to whether it's under warranty, or you're going to sell it to a friend or whatever. That's a NIMBY attitude.
I change mine around 4k or annually. But then all my cars have outlived their expected lifespan (14 to 26 years) and in some cases mileages (120k to 224k) and some are used well outside their design specs, so I don't think the recommendations really apply now.
I guess you could say the same for posters that are 'belittling' the manufacturers for their service schedules For me, the engine should be treated as best as you can, not down to whether it's under warranty, or you're going to sell it to a friend or whatever. That's a NIMBY attitude.
I change mine around 4k or annually. But then all my cars have outlived their expected lifespan (14 to 26 years) and in some cases mileages (120k to 224k) and some are used well outside their design specs, so I don't think the recommendations really apply now.
. Seeing as they designed, developed and produced the cars in question, I think they are probably better placed to advise us than a bunch of blokes on the internet.St John Smythe said:
I guess you could say the same for posters that are 'belittling' the manufacturers for their service schedules . Seeing as they designed, developed and produced the cars in question, I think they are probably better placed to advise us than a bunch of blokes on the internet.
Unless there is a well known issue that they still refuse to acknowledge.. Seeing as they designed, developed and produced the cars in question, I think they are probably better placed to advise us than a bunch of blokes on the internet.St John Smythe said:
I guess you could say the same for posters that are 'belittling' the manufacturers for their service schedules . Seeing as they designed, developed and produced the cars in question, I think they are probably better placed to advise us than a bunch of blokes on the internet.
So you've never deviated from the exact manufacturers spec in your time as an owner? Never remapped a car, never used anything but the same make of tyres that it came from the factory with. Do you insist that the when the car is serviced, it has the same brand of oil poured in as it had when the manufacturer supplied it? If you understand that the car you drive is full of little compromises the manufacturer is forced to make in order to mass market the product ( including the service schedule ), then it becomes clear that it's possible to optimise it accordingly.. Seeing as they designed, developed and produced the cars in question, I think they are probably better placed to advise us than a bunch of blokes on the internet.It's easy to make a car better than the manufacturer intended, that's why so many people do it. Fresh oil every 5k instead of 15 helps ensure it stays that way.
Stuff revs higher and faster, most people don't understand how long it takes for oil to reach temperature, lots of people don't understand the benefits of letting a turbocharged engine tick over at a motorway service stop before switching off.....in short, engines have a harder life now than they used to, they will benefit from more care, not less.
Heaveho said:
lots of people don't understand the benefits of letting a turbocharged engine tick over at a motorway service stop before switching off.....
My understanding was that letting a turbo idle for a bit before switching off hasn't been required for yonks - unless you've been ragging the tits off it. charltjr said:
My understanding was that letting a turbo idle for a bit before switching off hasn't been required for yonks - unless you've been ragging the tits off it.
That's an either or statement, if you've not been ragging it then not, if you have then its not a bad idea.Some modern cars have water pumps that run after shut down to help cool the Turbo, Cooper s for one.
St John Smythe said:
This.
For all the posters stating that manufacturers are wrong and it should be changed every 12 months, do you have any evidence to show sticking to the manufacturer schedule causes problems?
Well, for a period of 20 or 30 years engine problems were virtually unheard of.For all the posters stating that manufacturers are wrong and it should be changed every 12 months, do you have any evidence to show sticking to the manufacturer schedule causes problems?
And now, in the last few years, we seem to be hearing a lot about failed camchains, excessive oil consumption due to worn rings etc. etc.
Contrary to popular belief, engine technology hasn't actually changed a whole lot in terms of the basic engineering. What has changed is that instead of changing oil every 6,000 miles we now change it every 20,000 miles.
Indeed, some previously reliable engines, notably from Saab and Volkswagen, only started having problems when the manufacturers changed from 6,000 to 10,000+ mile oil changes.
So yeah, there would seem to be a fair bit of evidence to show that extended intervals cause problems for some users (granted, dependent on the exact pattern of use).
rigga said:
That's an either or statement, if you've not been ragging it then not, if you have then its not a bad idea.
Some modern cars have water pumps that run after shut down to help cool the Turbo, Cooper s for one.
What about the turbine shaft still spinning with no oil supply? (That sounds sarcastic, but it's not meant to be).Some modern cars have water pumps that run after shut down to help cool the Turbo, Cooper s for one.
To be safe I count to 10 as a minimum. Costs nothing and really doesn't spoil my day.
For my last three work cars I have had two cars with 18000 mile oil changes and one with 10,000 mile oil changes.
The first 18k change car went happily to 121,000 miles in three years and still felt as good as the day after it's first service
The second 18k change car is now on 72000 and again is absolutely fine.
The car with 10,000 services dropped a valve at 60,500 miles ( just out of warranty of course) and then had bearing failure at 83,000
This proves that you only get anecdotal evidence on PH - the car that the engine went pop on twice was a toyota
The first 18k change car went happily to 121,000 miles in three years and still felt as good as the day after it's first service
The second 18k change car is now on 72000 and again is absolutely fine.
The car with 10,000 services dropped a valve at 60,500 miles ( just out of warranty of course) and then had bearing failure at 83,000
This proves that you only get anecdotal evidence on PH - the car that the engine went pop on twice was a toyota
Being a mechanic ive seen the problems of long life servicing and lack of oil changes it can do a lot of damage to the engine, various manufactures have problems with oil problems.
The most famous one is the corsa timing chain rattle caused by lack of fresh oil this week infact ive seen a corsa in with low compression due to only having 1 oil change in 4 years the oil was like tar.
Mini also have the same problems with the chain tensioner too, also the mazda 6 diesel engine but that to do with failed regens on the dpf dumping fuel into the oil.
Another case is the utterly woeful 1.6 hdi pug lump found in various cars. They suffer a lot of problems that would have been cured by more regular oil changes. On this engine the injector seats are known to chuff if this goes un checked unburnt carbon enters the oil. Oil thickens up over time and blocks the small gaze in the turbo oil feed line this results in the turbo running dry of oil that interns destroys the turbo and if carried on driving will kill the engine.
This also can happen without the chuffing injector seat oil gets thicker over time and does the same thing also it isn't helped by short journeys.
20K service intervals are only set for the rep market they will last 3 years then as soon as they are sold on the manufacture doesn't want to know about them. Outside of the typical rep car service intervals on more run of the mill cars are around the 10,000 mile mark.
Most mechanics I know don't believe in long life car servicing as we see what or can become of cars that are on it. Know I will admit that some cars will be fine on it and we only see cars that comes in with faults which is fair enough but a lot of the problems come down to lack of servicing or even a basic oil change.
A oil and filter change on my car cost £20 for me with my mx5 mk1 it gets changed ever 6000 miles or once a year as I don't do high mileage the engine will last well over 250,000 miles.
In fact most engines will do this sort of mileage with regular oil changes, the oil is the most critical part of your engine why wouldn't you want to make sure its a fresh as it should be, ive seen the condition of oil coming out of longlife serviced cars all I would say is I wouldn't want that lubricating my engine.
The most famous one is the corsa timing chain rattle caused by lack of fresh oil this week infact ive seen a corsa in with low compression due to only having 1 oil change in 4 years the oil was like tar.
Mini also have the same problems with the chain tensioner too, also the mazda 6 diesel engine but that to do with failed regens on the dpf dumping fuel into the oil.
Another case is the utterly woeful 1.6 hdi pug lump found in various cars. They suffer a lot of problems that would have been cured by more regular oil changes. On this engine the injector seats are known to chuff if this goes un checked unburnt carbon enters the oil. Oil thickens up over time and blocks the small gaze in the turbo oil feed line this results in the turbo running dry of oil that interns destroys the turbo and if carried on driving will kill the engine.
This also can happen without the chuffing injector seat oil gets thicker over time and does the same thing also it isn't helped by short journeys.
20K service intervals are only set for the rep market they will last 3 years then as soon as they are sold on the manufacture doesn't want to know about them. Outside of the typical rep car service intervals on more run of the mill cars are around the 10,000 mile mark.
Most mechanics I know don't believe in long life car servicing as we see what or can become of cars that are on it. Know I will admit that some cars will be fine on it and we only see cars that comes in with faults which is fair enough but a lot of the problems come down to lack of servicing or even a basic oil change.
A oil and filter change on my car cost £20 for me with my mx5 mk1 it gets changed ever 6000 miles or once a year as I don't do high mileage the engine will last well over 250,000 miles.
In fact most engines will do this sort of mileage with regular oil changes, the oil is the most critical part of your engine why wouldn't you want to make sure its a fresh as it should be, ive seen the condition of oil coming out of longlife serviced cars all I would say is I wouldn't want that lubricating my engine.
rigga said:
charltjr said:
My understanding was that letting a turbo idle for a bit before switching off hasn't been required for yonks - unless you've been ragging the tits off it.
That's an either or statement, if you've not been ragging it then not, if you have then its not a bad idea.Some modern cars have water pumps that run after shut down to help cool the Turbo, Cooper s for one.
DKS said:
rigga said:
That's an either or statement, if you've not been ragging it then not, if you have then its not a bad idea.
Some modern cars have water pumps that run after shut down to help cool the Turbo, Cooper s for one.
What about the turbine shaft still spinning with no oil supply? (That sounds sarcastic, but it's not meant to be).Some modern cars have water pumps that run after shut down to help cool the Turbo, Cooper s for one.
To be safe I count to 10 as a minimum. Costs nothing and really doesn't spoil my day.
DKS said:
What about the turbine shaft still spinning with no oil supply? (That sounds sarcastic, but it's not meant to be).
To be safe I count to 10 as a minimum. Costs nothing and really doesn't spoil my day.
Like I said, if you've been ragging the engine, or been doing some high revs motorway work, then the Turbo will still be spinning pretty high if you shut the engine down, so yes let it idle for a short while, Turbo timers back in the day were just the thing for those who couldn't count, but normal town driving and not been on boost, no need.To be safe I count to 10 as a minimum. Costs nothing and really doesn't spoil my day.
cptsideways said:
DKS said:
rigga said:
That's an either or statement, if you've not been ragging it then not, if you have then its not a bad idea.
Some modern cars have water pumps that run after shut down to help cool the Turbo, Cooper s for one.
What about the turbine shaft still spinning with no oil supply? (That sounds sarcastic, but it's not meant to be).Some modern cars have water pumps that run after shut down to help cool the Turbo, Cooper s for one.
To be safe I count to 10 as a minimum. Costs nothing and really doesn't spoil my day.
DJP said:
Well, for a period of 20 or 30 years engine problems were virtually unheard of.
And now, in the last few years, we seem to be hearing a lot about failed camchains, excessive oil consumption due to worn rings etc. etc.
That sounds like quite a selective memory. And now, in the last few years, we seem to be hearing a lot about failed camchains, excessive oil consumption due to worn rings etc. etc.
Remember, this is a car forum, but the majority of people won't be overservicing their cars, and in quite a few cases, missing or ignoring services, and still, car just carry on running without problems until they get scrapped for rust or suspension or whatever, with the engine still running fine.
babatunde said:
Remember when we used to change spark plugs every 5000miles as part of regular serving, well nowadays iridium plugs last 100,000 miles +. I don't understand why some people refuse to accept that engine and oil technology have moved on from the 1970's
That's such a terrible example that it is quite evident that you do not know what your talking about.dsuk said:
Interested to know what what the general consensus on long interval oil changes is.
My car is 9,000 miles (12 months) since last change, car is indicating another 9,000 miles till oil change. Which will make it 18,000 miles 2 years.
Dealer cost £149 for oil change, which has the advantage of dealer stamp for resale of car next year and any warranty work identified.
Thoughts?
I'd change the oil myself after 9,000 and 1year then keep the receipt for the oil and filter with the service history.My car is 9,000 miles (12 months) since last change, car is indicating another 9,000 miles till oil change. Which will make it 18,000 miles 2 years.
Dealer cost £149 for oil change, which has the advantage of dealer stamp for resale of car next year and any warranty work identified.
Thoughts?
I'd take it to the dealers in another 9,000 and 1year so that it maintains full service history.
Best of both worlds IMO.
St John Smythe said:
I guess you could say the same for posters that are 'belittling' the manufacturers for their service schedules . Seeing as they designed, developed and produced the cars in question, I think they are probably better placed to advise us than a bunch of blokes on the internet.
They do get it wrong sometimes - e.g. "filled for life" autoboxes on Mercedes a few years back. They later back-tracked and introduced every 40k changes after they started breaking. . Seeing as they designed, developed and produced the cars in question, I think they are probably better placed to advise us than a bunch of blokes on the internet.20,000 miles might be up and down motorways in under a year, or short journeys over 3 years. It might be driven gently or ragged on track-days. Only you know how you use your car, what's wrong with using your head?
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