So are Alfa's unreliable or not? (esp. 159s)
Discussion
I see a lot of Alfa Romeo owners claim their favourite brand is fine if the cars are serviced regularly, but the statistics suggest otherwise. A phenomenon exhibited perfectly by the contradiction here between the official stats and the owner stats.
So which is it?
Are the owners being religious and unwilling to admit their cars are unreliable?Or is it just that the stats for 159s are dragged down by particular engines and others are fine?
I'd like a 159 estate. Frequent expensive repairs would spoil the car for me though.
If you're inclined to reply, would you mind mentioning where you are getting your knowledge from?
Thanks.
So which is it?
Are the owners being religious and unwilling to admit their cars are unreliable?Or is it just that the stats for 159s are dragged down by particular engines and others are fine?
I'd like a 159 estate. Frequent expensive repairs would spoil the car for me though.
If you're inclined to reply, would you mind mentioning where you are getting your knowledge from?
Thanks.
In my experience they are not unreliable in the sense that it will leave you stranded at the side of the road. They do require to be looked after and maintained correctly like any other car.
Only 'fault' I ever suffered with mine was a coked-up EGR valve which did not result in complete failure - just a drop in power and driveability until it was relatively inexpensively cleaned out, and this is a problem by no means exclusive to Alfas.
My E90 on the other hand has left me stranded and had to be recovered home twice....!
Only 'fault' I ever suffered with mine was a coked-up EGR valve which did not result in complete failure - just a drop in power and driveability until it was relatively inexpensively cleaned out, and this is a problem by no means exclusive to Alfas.
My E90 on the other hand has left me stranded and had to be recovered home twice....!
My bro has a 156.
It has caused him no end of problems with broken waterpumps, wishbones, gaskets, wishbones, variatoirs, wishbones, and pretty much anything that could go wrong with it.
He's still got it though, as everytime he fixes it he says well everything has been replaced now, so nothing can go wrong. Then a wishbone goes.
It has caused him no end of problems with broken waterpumps, wishbones, gaskets, wishbones, variatoirs, wishbones, and pretty much anything that could go wrong with it.
He's still got it though, as everytime he fixes it he says well everything has been replaced now, so nothing can go wrong. Then a wishbone goes.
i can tell you about my 156 91k miles
in under a years ownership non perishable items required were.
crank sensor
CV boot
upper & lower arms front
lower arms rear
cam belt snapped
dead
suspension is almost considered a perishable on that model so could have been worse. I would/will own another alfa but cant say it enough, especially if you enjoy the top of the rev range, belts belts belts. every 30k.
in under a years ownership non perishable items required were.
crank sensor
CV boot
upper & lower arms front
lower arms rear
cam belt snapped
dead
suspension is almost considered a perishable on that model so could have been worse. I would/will own another alfa but cant say it enough, especially if you enjoy the top of the rev range, belts belts belts. every 30k.
TheBALDpuma said:
My bro has a 156.....wishbones, ..., wishbones, ... , wishbones, ...... Then a wishbone goes.
If the car is going through wishbones this frequently (and I think what you really mean is wishbone bushes) then they are not being installed correctly. The rubber bushings have to be silicone-greased before fitting and this requires dismantling and re-assembling them before mounting. All new wishbones are delivered dry or with at most a smear of lubricant and most people fit them this way and then wonder why in 6-12 months they are shot again.Not a problem with the car.....!
Edited by r11co on Monday 21st July 10:02
I have a 159 1.9 JTDm Sport Wagon as a daily driver, it's a 56 plate and has just hit 180k miles. I've had it 2 years, it had 140k on it when I got it. It was a one owner lease car before I bought it and looking back through the history apart from routine servicing and a clutch/flywheel the only other expenditure has been on front suspension components and an EGR valve.
During my ownership I've had no trouble with any of the electrical components, I changed the belts/tensioner/water pump when I got it and I've replaced a couple of front suspension arms. It does have an ongoing issue with either the DPF or EGR, it hesitates if you are in a high gear at lowish rpm on a light throttle but I've learnt to drive round it. MPG averages 45. The interior has worn very well although mine has the optional Frau leather, the paintwork is very chippy although there is no sign of corrosion at all.
I'm a buyer for a large independant dealer specialising in German cars and 4x4s and choose to run one because the equivalent German cars are way more expensive and from my experience no more reliable. I find Alfas can be niggly but they rarely need big money throwing at them, they aren't over complicated and parts prices are quite low. Having said that I wouldn't say the same about the 2.4JTD!
During my ownership I've had no trouble with any of the electrical components, I changed the belts/tensioner/water pump when I got it and I've replaced a couple of front suspension arms. It does have an ongoing issue with either the DPF or EGR, it hesitates if you are in a high gear at lowish rpm on a light throttle but I've learnt to drive round it. MPG averages 45. The interior has worn very well although mine has the optional Frau leather, the paintwork is very chippy although there is no sign of corrosion at all.
I'm a buyer for a large independant dealer specialising in German cars and 4x4s and choose to run one because the equivalent German cars are way more expensive and from my experience no more reliable. I find Alfas can be niggly but they rarely need big money throwing at them, they aren't over complicated and parts prices are quite low. Having said that I wouldn't say the same about the 2.4JTD!
r11co said:
TheBALDpuma said:
My bro has a 156.....wishbones, ..., wishbones, ... , wishbones, ...... Then a wishbone goes.
If the car is going through wishbones this frequently (and I think what you really mean is wishbone bushes) then they are not being installed correctly. The rubber bushings have to be silicone-greased before fitting and this requires dismantling and re-assembling them before mounting. All new wishbones are delivered dry or with at most a smear of lubricant and most people fit them this way and then wonder why in 6-12 months they are shot again.Not a problem with the car.....!
Edited by r11co on Monday 21st July 10:02
TheBALDpuma said:
Well they're getting done at a reputable and recommended alfa specialist so assuming they know what they're doing. I'm obviously exaggerating, but just making the point that suspension components are a consumable to the 156.
As r11co pointed out it's the bushes that fail. The OP should note that the ones on the 159 are substantially more durable.TheBALDpuma said:
Well they're getting done at a reputable and recommended alfa specialist so assuming they know what they're doing.
They clearly don't! In my experience most 'specialists' are guys who couldn't cut it at main dealers or thought they could make a buck off the back of the year or two they spent working in a 'prestige' franchise. Their experience dates the minute they leave the franchise and in reality they are no more an expert than any other indy unless they take the time to continue to learn the newer models of cars.I've resorted to seeking the advice of specialists twice and on both occasions they were a complete let down - one (alleged Alfa specialist) quoted significantly more than the franchise dealer to replace a holed air-con pipe and refused to offer a guarantee on the work if I did get them to do it, and another (alleged BMW specialist) spent ages not diagnosing an ECU fault which I eventually sorted myself with detective work and help from some proper people in the know over the BM forum.
Sticking some manufacture logos around a garage space does not make someone a specialist.
r11co said:
They clearly don't! In my experience most 'specialists' are guys who couldn't cut it at main dealers or thought they could make a buck off the back of the year or two they spent working in a 'prestige' franchise. Their experience dates the minute they leave the franchise and in reality they are no more an expert than any other indy unless they take the time to continue to learn the newer models of cars.
I've resorted to seeking the advice of specialists twice and on both occasions they were a complete let down - one (alleged Alfa specialist) quoted significantly more than the franchise dealer to replace a holed air-con pipe and refused to offer a guarantee on the work if I did get them to do it, and another (alleged BMW specialist) spent ages not diagnosing an ECU fault which I eventually sorted myself with detective work and help from some proper people in the know over the BM forum.
Sticking some manufacture logos around a garage space does not make someone a specialist.
Like I said I was exaggerating to a)make a point and because b)I like poking fun at my bro for having an unreliable heap of car!I've resorted to seeking the advice of specialists twice and on both occasions they were a complete let down - one (alleged Alfa specialist) quoted significantly more than the franchise dealer to replace a holed air-con pipe and refused to offer a guarantee on the work if I did get them to do it, and another (alleged BMW specialist) spent ages not diagnosing an ECU fault which I eventually sorted myself with detective work and help from some proper people in the know over the BM forum.
Sticking some manufacture logos around a garage space does not make someone a specialist.
The garage he uses are always a fair percentahe cheaper he tells me then anywhere else and l ike I say, come highly recommended both from the interet and alfa owners. So much so he travels for over an hour to use this specific garage when work needs doing.
It really is quite astounding that you can say "They [the specilist] clearly don't [know what they're doing]" based on my self admitted exaggerated account of how often my brothers car breaks! I think it just goes to show how far people will go to defend the brand of car they own! The suspension on the 156 is a known weakpoint. End of. I'm not saying it's a bad car. I'm stating a known, and reported fact!
TheBALDpuma said:
The suspension on the 156 is a known weakpoint. End of.
I hope that's mthe end of it. The suspension is not a weak point - only the bushes (especially the front) and that's on the 147/156/GTV platforms; The OP asked about the 159 and ALFA had addressed this problem for this model.TheBALDpuma said:
My bro has a 156.
It has caused him no end of problems with broken waterpumps, wishbones, gaskets, wishbones, variatoirs, wishbones, and pretty much anything that could go wrong with it.
He's still got it though, as everytime he fixes it he says well everything has been replaced now, so nothing can go wrong. Then a wishbone goes.
I'd be quite surprised if a variator or waterpump failed before the cambelt interval (3 years / 36,000 miles), so it means that at some point, someone had the opportunity to change them and elected not to. Don't get me wrong, it's fair enough - you save your money, you take your chances - but it's not like it was unavoidable.It has caused him no end of problems with broken waterpumps, wishbones, gaskets, wishbones, variatoirs, wishbones, and pretty much anything that could go wrong with it.
He's still got it though, as everytime he fixes it he says well everything has been replaced now, so nothing can go wrong. Then a wishbone goes.
As has been said, you'll get good and bad as with any car. I started to get a bit of hesitation on throttle pick up on my 159 which turned out to be the EGR valve, even a complete novice can whip the thing off and do a good clean (luckily it was only the lower chambers that had sooted up on mine) which sorted the throttle lag (nice smooth pick up now).
Belts (and water pump while your at it) are a good thing to look at changing if they haven't been done but otherwise they're a nice looking car, bit on the bumpy side over a lumpy road but I've come to really like mine (though the cost of tyres can be rather eye watering if like me you buy the Ti version and need to replace all four tyres in the space of a fortnight).
Belts (and water pump while your at it) are a good thing to look at changing if they haven't been done but otherwise they're a nice looking car, bit on the bumpy side over a lumpy road but I've come to really like mine (though the cost of tyres can be rather eye watering if like me you buy the Ti version and need to replace all four tyres in the space of a fortnight).
trashbat said:
I'd be quite surprised if a variator or waterpump failed before the cambelt interval (3 years / 36,000 miles), so it means that at some point, someone had the opportunity to change them and elected not to. Don't get me wrong, it's fair enough - you save your money, you take your chances - but it's not like it was unavoidable.
Variator failure more related to not keeping the oil topped up?TA14 said:
Variator failure more related to not keeping the oil topped up?
Maybe - possibly more to do with dirty oil than low levels, by which point the big ends die quickly anyway. They fail eventually regardless, although I think their failure mode is just to make a crappy diesel sound rather than anything worse.For the OP's clarity: this is about the 156, not the 159
trashbat said:
TheBALDpuma said:
My bro has a 156.
It has caused him no end of problems with broken waterpumps, wishbones, gaskets, wishbones, variatoirs, wishbones, and pretty much anything that could go wrong with it.
He's still got it though, as everytime he fixes it he says well everything has been replaced now, so nothing can go wrong. Then a wishbone goes.
I'd be quite surprised if a variator or waterpump failed before the cambelt interval (3 years / 36,000 miles), so it means that at some point, someone had the opportunity to change them and elected not to. Don't get me wrong, it's fair enough - you save your money, you take your chances - but it's not like it was unavoidable.It has caused him no end of problems with broken waterpumps, wishbones, gaskets, wishbones, variatoirs, wishbones, and pretty much anything that could go wrong with it.
He's still got it though, as everytime he fixes it he says well everything has been replaced now, so nothing can go wrong. Then a wishbone goes.
He keeps up with the belts, and the variator is relatively new problem I believe. He does top up but gets through a lot of oil,, somthing like 1L/600 miles. It's changed once a year I believe.
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