is car sales one of the most overrated jobs around ?

is car sales one of the most overrated jobs around ?

Author
Discussion

Dbest92

300 posts

132 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
Do car salesman sell cars or all the censored extras like finance products, expensive GAP insurance, paint protection etc. I've just bought a new car, knew what I wanted. Found offer at local dealer etc, yet it was a frustrating experience as I had to battle thought all the extras I was being offered that i didn't want etc. These were obviously commission based and you could tell as he was reluctant to take no for an answer.

Can't be an easy job tbh as a lot of people these days are quite savvy with money, know what they want or have researched beforehand and found it at a better price, therefore selling these extras can't be easy.

LHD

17,000 posts

186 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
SuperHangOn said:
It must be hard getting decent salesmen when the staff turnover is so high.

Makes me wonder if a lot of dealers would be better off employing on flat rate rather than heavy commission - surely the result would be a less pressured/pushy atmosphere and they would hang on to staff longer? Could easily work in their favour.
I've got 9 salesmen working for me and their service length varies between 13 years and 2 years.

The reason we don't have high turnover?

We pay them properly and they stay.

Funny that...

Sheepshanks

32,522 posts

118 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
Rich_W said:
Work it out.

Take 1 salesman who sells 1 NEW car every day during the week (5) and 3 on Saturdays. (Probably only the good ones are doing 8 a week. The cack ones will be nearer 3-4 I guess) Average profit for a dealership per car? £300-500ish? Lets say £400 so £3200. And we'll let the individual sales here tell you what the difference for selling a smart car is compared to a SLS laugh

Take 1 Technician working for 40ish, lets say 35 hours a week at average of £130 per hour. £4550.
That the brand-new glass palace Honda dealer I visited survives can only mean that the profit per car must be way higher than that. The public must be being kidded big-time about dealer margins on new cars.

There days with everything on free or discounted service contracts and extended warranties they can't be getting much from servicing work.

I have a good idea of what it costs to run a business and looking around I can't see how it makes sense at all.

regprentice

59 posts

116 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
phPaddy said:
That Arnold Clarke lad who was losing a tenner for not getting an email address deserves to lose a tenner for admitting it, just make one up it's not like they're going to respond to a fishing email anyway.
This was his first month. No one explained the policy or mentioned it at all to him til he got his payslip.

tdm34

7,365 posts

209 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
Urban Sports said:
tdm34 said:
Urban Sports said:
tdm34 said:
Urban Sports said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Herman Toothrot said:
I find it odd that new car sales people exist to "sell" cars as I don't think they do, the product sells. The roll of sales men seems to really be filling in finance forms and just letting people know why their order is delayed. Buying a new car bike etc I'd read reviews make a decision what I want then just find where said car or bikes available from cheapest. A sales man has never sold me a car or bike, I decide what I want then go and buy it, they could just have a cashier like in tescos for all I care.
No.

There are plenty of garages all selling the same thing, all under cutting each other, salesmens job is to steer them into buying from them.
Why not just get quotes and phone around to get dealers / sales people to undercut each other until they won't go any further then deal with the lowest bidder? I know a few people that do this including myself, sales people don't add anything to the experience anymore, their days are numbered IMO.
roflroflrofl
I know the whole thing makes me laugh as well, like anybody gives a st who sells them the car, as long as it's the lowest bidder, who cares? Good to see somebody in agreement.
Ha! remember when us "Salesman" have all gone, when all you can do is look at Autocar/Evo/Pistonheads for reviews for your new cars, when you can't testdrive your chosen car, when you only have one supplier (because when you remove the dealers as you will do) do you think that supplier will offer anything for you? Simple answer is no! as they won't have to. you'll have to pay what they want because you'll have no choice, whichever way you slice it you need us "salesman" but you just can't see it!

I really hope the Car retail industry doesn't go the same way as the home electronics industry, as that is nearly at the state of utopia that you seem to want.....
roflroflroflrofl
I expected that reposte, but one day your blinkers will fall off, and you'll wonder what happened!!

Urban Sports

11,321 posts

202 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
tdm34 said:
Urban Sports said:
tdm34 said:
Urban Sports said:
tdm34 said:
Urban Sports said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Herman Toothrot said:
I find it odd that new car sales people exist to "sell" cars as I don't think they do, the product sells. The roll of sales men seems to really be filling in finance forms and just letting people know why their order is delayed. Buying a new car bike etc I'd read reviews make a decision what I want then just find where said car or bikes available from cheapest. A sales man has never sold me a car or bike, I decide what I want then go and buy it, they could just have a cashier like in tescos for all I care.
No.

There are plenty of garages all selling the same thing, all under cutting each other, salesmens job is to steer them into buying from them.
Why not just get quotes and phone around to get dealers / sales people to undercut each other until they won't go any further then deal with the lowest bidder? I know a few people that do this including myself, sales people don't add anything to the experience anymore, their days are numbered IMO.
roflroflrofl
I know the whole thing makes me laugh as well, like anybody gives a st who sells them the car, as long as it's the lowest bidder, who cares? Good to see somebody in agreement.
Ha! remember when us "Salesman" have all gone, when all you can do is look at Autocar/Evo/Pistonheads for reviews for your new cars, when you can't testdrive your chosen car, when you only have one supplier (because when you remove the dealers as you will do) do you think that supplier will offer anything for you? Simple answer is no! as they won't have to. you'll have to pay what they want because you'll have no choice, whichever way you slice it you need us "salesman" but you just can't see it!

I really hope the Car retail industry doesn't go the same way as the home electronics industry, as that is nearly at the state of utopia that you seem to want.....
roflroflroflrofl
I expected that reposte, but one day your blinkers will fall off, and you'll wonder what happened!!
Believe me they really won't.

Edited by Urban Sports on Monday 21st July 22:59

Sheepshanks

32,522 posts

118 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
LHD said:
markmullen said:
Sheepshanks said:
There aren't many car salesmen doing that either. Even amongst the ones who work at BMW dealers.
You think? A lot of my friends are car salesmen, as am I, and I know plenty who are. To be honest if you're not the hours aren't worth it.
I wouldn't get out my bed for less than £50k PA. wink
...but you're a sales manager with 9 salesmen working for you.

tdm34

7,365 posts

209 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
Dbest92 said:
Do car salesman sell cars or all the censored extras like finance products, expensive GAP insurance, paint protection etc. I've just bought a new car, knew what I wanted. Found offer at local dealer etc, yet it was a frustrating experience as I had to battle thought all the extras I was being offered that i didn't want etc. These were obviously commission based and you could tell as he was reluctant to take no for an answer.

Can't be an easy job tbh as a lot of people these days are quite savvy with money, know what they want or have researched beforehand and found it at a better price, therefore selling these extras can't be easy.
I take it that you must be aware that because of Financial Services Authorities regulations that we have to tell you poor customers about GAP etc because if we didn't and you had a shunt that wrecked your new wheels, you could sue us for the difference.

But of course you knew that, didn't you?

edit: expensive GAP insurance, Expensive? £169 for five years that guarantees that it'll basically wipe any finance debt you might have attached to the car in the event of your car suffering a total loss? that works out to be £2.81 per month that's not even the price of a pint today or one Mars Bar per week!!


Edited by tdm34 on Monday 21st July 23:05


Edited by tdm34 on Monday 21st July 23:06

Grandfondo

12,241 posts

205 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
Bought a car (new) this morning for my daughters birthday.looked on Internet for the cheapest price available phoned local dealer got spec I was wanting and almost at the lowest price, gave them deposit and will be picking it up on the 5th of August.
I new exactly what I was wanting and how much I was prepared to pay,the salesman gets his crust ,I am happy and my daughter will be happy and the salesman was young and didn't give me any bullst so I didn't give him s hard time!

It will probably be the easiest sale he will ever have (maybe not the most profitable) but I took up maybe 10-15mins of his day and the job was done! smile

POORCARDEALER

8,523 posts

240 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
Grandfondo said:
Bought a car (new) this morning for my daughters birthday.looked on Internet for the cheapest price available phoned local dealer got spec I was wanting and almost at the lowest price, gave them deposit and will be picking it up on the 5th of August.
I new exactly what I was wanting and how much I was prepared to pay,the salesman gets his crust ,I am happy and my daughter will be happy and the salesman was young and didn't give me any bullst so I didn't give him s hard time!

It will probably be the easiest sale he will ever have (maybe not the most profitable) but I took up maybe 10-15mins of his day and the job was done! smile
Thats what I do when im making a large purchase, I want to leave a few quid in it for the retailer though, as I want them to be there if I have a problem down the line.

There are many customers though who will take hours and hours to buy (or not) and these are the type of people who need "hand holding", and thats the salesmans job

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
SuperHangOn said:
It must be hard getting decent salesmen when the staff turnover is so high.

Makes me wonder if a lot of dealers would be better off employing on flat rate rather than heavy commission - surely the result would be a less pressured/pushy atmosphere and they would hang on to staff longer? Could easily work in their favour.
I disagree. Under the current system the bright boys make the money and it sorts out the wheat from the chaff. If you just pay a salary the go getters would not have the incentive to strive for more.

I accept that it's different here in the US but we get no basic salary at all. Everything is commission based so if you don't sell you starve. By the same token we have unlimited earnings and the top producers earn very good money. You tend to see churn at the bottom because people can't handle it but that's natural selection. The difference is that the poor performers don't wait around drawing a salary and wasting a desk.

In a team of 10 we have 2 guys over 20 years, 3 guys over 10, 2 guys between 4 and 5, one at 18 months and 2 newbies.



okgo

37,856 posts

197 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
I really am staggered by how many people on here fail to make the connection that the general demographic of this forum is not the that of joe public.

I wouldn't dream of going into a bike shop and listening to someone try and flog me this or that because I know what I want and use shops purely as a pick up place for said item. But I do realise there are millions of people who require the exact same assistance when buying a push bike that many do with a car and ergo bike shops have sales people too.


jonah35

3,940 posts

156 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
okgo said:
Luckily for the UK retail market, not everyone is like the people on this site.

I struggle to comprehend how you don't seem to grasp how the MAJORITY of people operate. Take summer for example, its hot, people think it would be nice to go and have a look at a convertible mini to chop in the golf they have, they say they're just looking, you convince them to have a drive of a convertible (generate a bit of desire, bums on seats flogs cars and all that - it does, period), then you suggest a valuation on their car, suddenly this whim is becoming a reality and the gap between the two is a mere £150 a month away, and before they know it, they're sold in and you've sold them a car.

Not everyone sits at home in the dark scouring the internet, and jacking off on 'drive the deal' fking people about all over the country to save £5 so they can brag about it on the MSE forum and feel pleased with themselves when they get to add that lower payment to their monthly expenses spreadsheet, its just not how 'most' people are.
This is very true.

I don't like car salesmen nor salesmen in general but most people would like a salesman to sort things for them.


Ari

19,328 posts

214 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
tdm34 said:
edit: expensive GAP insurance, Expensive? £169 for fice years that guarantees that it'll basically wipe any finance debt you might have attached to the car in the event of your car suffering a total loss? that works out to be £2.81 per month that's not even the price of a pint today or one Mars Bar per week!!
How much can you buy exactly the same product on line for..? wink

Dbest92

300 posts

132 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
tdm34 said:
Dbest92 said:
Do car salesman sell cars or all the censored extras like finance products, expensive GAP insurance, paint protection etc. I've just bought a new car, knew what I wanted. Found offer at local dealer etc, yet it was a frustrating experience as I had to battle thought all the extras I was being offered that i didn't want etc. These were obviously commission based and you could tell as he was reluctant to take no for an answer.

Can't be an easy job tbh as a lot of people these days are quite savvy with money, know what they want or have researched beforehand and found it at a better price, therefore selling these extras can't be easy.
I take it that you must be aware that because of Financial Services Authorities regulations that we have to tell you poor customers about GAP etc because if we didn't and you had a shunt that wrecked your new wheels, you could sue us for the difference.

But of course you knew that, didn't you?

edit: expensive GAP insurance, Expensive? £169 for five years that guarantees that it'll basically wipe any finance debt you might have attached to the car in the event of your car suffering a total loss? that works out to be £2.81 per month that's not even the price of a pint today or one Mars Bar per week!!


Edited by tdm34 on Monday 21st July 23:05


Edited by tdm34 on Monday 21st July 23:06
I'll admit I didn't know that bit, but it was the desperation in which he tried to sell it. Plus they wanted to charge £349 for it over 3 years. When you know you can get it for less, much less as you stated. This was after he'd tried selling various other bits, frustrating when you want to get out and drive your new car.

I'm not knocking those in the trade, it can't be easy, but I don't think the steep targets and all is the best approach as it makes It difficult and frustrating for everybody, as a previous posted said maybe a better/ different pay scheme would work better.

I'm not gunna lie, I don't know how the trade works, but this was just my observations when i bought a new car the other day.

Benj1984

173 posts

130 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
I really don't understand the hate. Car sales, like any job has good and bad areas. People selling used cars at supermarkets are different to execs selling prestige cars. There are different rules and the sales people are at different ends of the spectrum. Just as there are bad mechanics, and bad engineers, there are horrible smarmy sales people. But don't lump everyone in the same boat. Most, especially at prestige dealers, are professionals, and very well paid. not the stereotype being banded around on here. Also, some of the figures mentioned here are laughable. The sales people at the dealership in which I work in are on £50k + constantly.For those saying you don't need salesmen, that's fine. Many do. Lots of people find certain environments imtimidating, and making a purchase as big as a car can be daunting. Most people like the personable experience of a good salesman to guide them through the process. I think if your spending £50k on a car, you'd like to feel that the people you're spending that money with can at least be arsed to give a good, human representative.

Has anyone ever had trouble with BT broadband? How did you find the experice of getting it sorted out using there automated, or online systems? How glad where you when you finally got through to an English speaking person, who knew the product?

Let's have more humans in jobs eh. Makes life much more pleasant.

Sheepshanks

32,522 posts

118 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
unrepentant said:
I accept that it's different here in the US but we get no basic salary at all. Everything is commission based so if you don't sell you starve. By the same token we have unlimited earnings and the top producers earn very good money. You tend to see churn at the bottom because people can't handle it but that's natural selection. The difference is that the poor performers don't wait around drawing a salary and wasting a desk.
Effectively it can't be much different in the UK at the bottom end - if a salesmen performs badly then he's not going to be in the job long.

At the top-end I would imagine most US based salesman could earn commission at levels unimaginable to UK car salesfolk.

Sheepshanks

32,522 posts

118 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
tdm34 said:
I take it that you must be aware that because of Financial Services Authorities regulations that we have to tell you poor customers about GAP etc because if we didn't and you had a shunt that wrecked your new wheels, you could sue us for the difference.

But of course you knew that, didn't you?
Interesting - I ordered a new car the other day and took a 0% PCP. GAP was never mentioned at all. Does that mean I effectively have the protection of GAP without having to pay for it?

tdm34 said:
edit: expensive GAP insurance, Expensive? £169 for five years ...
That's a remarkably low figure for GAP from a dealer.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Monday 21st July 23:44

-Z-

5,980 posts

205 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
MajorProblem said:
I think Jordan Belfort started off in car sales.
Nope, dental school. Although they are comparable these days wink

bugmenot

129 posts

132 months

Monday 21st July 2014
quotequote all
tdm34 said:
I take it that you must be aware that because of Financial Services Authorities regulations that we have to tell you poor customers about GAP etc because if we didn't and you had a shunt that wrecked your new wheels, you could sue us for the difference.

But of course you knew that, didn't you?

edit: expensive GAP insurance, Expensive? £169 for five years that guarantees that it'll basically wipe any finance debt you might have attached to the car in the event of your car suffering a total loss? that works out to be £2.81 per month that's not even the price of a pint today or one Mars Bar per week!!


Edited by tdm34 on Monday 21st July 23:05


Edited by tdm34 on Monday 21st July 23:06
That's not even true. And if you think otherwise can you point me towards these regulations?

Perhaps the only possible rationale is that if a customer later makes a complaint which is referred to the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) then there is the POTENTIAL that the FOS could view this as mis-selling if you didn't explain all the GAP insurance options to the customer.

(Not knocking you for selling it though - it is a worthwhile product)

Edited by bugmenot on Monday 21st July 23:42