is car sales one of the most overrated jobs around ?

[CarlT]

Sheepshanks said:

Fast Bug said:

A car has a set value depending on miles/condition. You can obviously pay more then that for it, but then you're losing money. Now being a salesman, and not having a degree in rocket science, means that I'm not sure if that's a good business model or not. Maybe you can help me with that one?

I don't know, obviously, but "we'll be sending that to the auction" seems an unimaginative way of dealing with decent p/x's and it's not providing the customer any benefit compared to selling to WBAC and buying online.

By sending a non franchise car to auction, they free up the money to go and buy used car stock for the franchise they do represent. Better to have 2 x Volkswagen Polos on the forecourt than money tied up in one Q5 for example (if you are a Volkswagen dealer).

[HumbleJim]

Fast Bug said:

Sheepshanks said:

That's the point - if the dealer is doing exactly the same as WBAC they're not adding any value to the process.

I'm sorry you've lost me. What would you like the dealership to do with part exchanges to add value?

Some dealers will have a seperate retail set up to clear px's. Dog's still get sent to auction, but nice clean cars can attract a little more and still generate an additional income. The other option is a decent used car trader/buyer can employed who knows the market and where to place stuff. They can achieve over auction price (on some stuff) pay their wages and add value to the customer and the business. Most companies now just use CAP and auction, it's the easy option.

[Fast Bug]

Not that many dealerships have a separate operation to retail part exchanges. And as already stated above, it's better to have franchise vehicles in stock as a) generally that's what customers come looking for and b) you stand a better chance of getting the after sales business.

[CarlT]

HumbleJim said:

Fast Bug said:

Sheepshanks said:

That's the point - if the dealer is doing exactly the same as WBAC they're not adding any value to the process.

I'm sorry you've lost me. What would you like the dealership to do with part exchanges to add value?

Some dealers will have a seperate retail set up to clear px's. Dog's still get sent to auction, but nice clean cars can attract a little more and still generate an additional income. The other option is a decent used car trader/buyer can employed who knows the market and where to place stuff. They can achieve over auction price (on some stuff) pay their wages and add value to the customer and the business. Most companies now just use CAP and auction, it's the easy option.

Auction is the easy option as it helps cash flow and is simple. Most places make a fairly reasonable profit out of the auctions, so it works and is less hassle.
A used car trader will know where to place it, but other dealerships won't pay the money for these cars. Auctions are populated by all sorts and people end up paying more for the cars!

[HumbleJim]

Fast Bug said:

Not that many dealerships have a separate operation to retail part exchanges. And as already stated above, it's better to have franchise vehicles in stock as a) generally that's what customers come looking for and b) you stand a better chance of getting the after sales business.

You're right. But it is a way to add value. I have retailed non franchise PX's (sometimes when a mistake has been made re px value) Specialist stuff is easier because people don't mind travelling for it, other stuff sells from Autotrader. You can price it a little cheaper because a) You don't have to hit brand stds b) a little profit is better than none (+ add-ons etc)

You do however need space, a little skill to pick the gooduns, and an open mind.
Most franchise dealerships will charge £100+ per hour prep costs, they will "rape" the sales dept which makes retailing older stuff a nightmare. If you could set up a used car operation you could prep cars for £30-40 per hr (inhouse) and still generate a small profit to cover overheads.

Think of it this way, if it was your business how would you run it?

[woody2846]

We now retail most part exchanges that we can put a warranty on. Been fairly successful thus far. We are currently retailing a 13 year old Saab convertible, Which 3 years ago would have gone straight out to trade. If can pull a few quid profit and the workshop get some work out of it then ideal.
I quite enjoying selling the non franchise cars. Scrap that I quite enjoy selling any car

[HTP99]

HumbleJim said:

Sheepshanks said:

Apparently people will drive miles to save £50 when buying a car.

Some people will. A lot of people like the convenience of drive in and drive out with the next car, finance settled/arranged etc.
Where the dealers could make things better is by keeping the customers life simple, rather than pissing them off making them jump through hoops.

People will drive many miles to save £50 to buy a car however in my experience it is nothing to do with another dealer making life easier for the customer; it is literally to save £50-£100, I've lost new cars to dealers well out of our area knowing that the customer has driven there, placed an order and will go back again to collect the car, they will waste more time effort and money and place more grief upon themeselves to get a better deal which isn't worth all that grief and to be frank if they are doing that then we probably wouldn't want them as customers anyway as that sort of person is nearly always grief and likely has already made themselves a nuisance.

As for retailing trade ins, we retail many more different marques than we used to and older cars too, if there is profit in it then we will have a go.

[Sheepshanks]

Fast Bug said:

Not that many dealerships have a separate operation to retail part exchanges.

I was thinking that dealerships who are part of groups (which I'm guessing is pretty well all of them now) could have a combined operation selling good p/x's.

The other side of it is that the Holy Grail for manufacturing marketing people is MSS - Market Segment Share - so it's surprising that dealers don't get extra money to take in non-franchise vehicles.

For all I know maybe both the above things do actually happen - as I've said, it's hard to see how the dealer I bought a new Honda off makes money (which is a concern - it's no good to me if they go bust) so there must be much more to the deal than the headline numbers.

[C.A.R.]

I almost pursued a job in car sales for Vauxhall a few years ago, but like many others have pointed out already, the hours put me off.

I've always worked in / around sales though, my best effort was when working in a hobby shop, a bloke came in wanting a jigsaw puzzle and I sold him a £700 radio controlled tank.

There seems to be a lot of negativity towards people who work in sales as though they are some form of con artist? Seems very harsh!

[paranoid airbag]

C.A.R. said:

I almost pursued a job in car sales for Vauxhall a few years ago, but like many others have pointed out already, the hours put me off.

I've always worked in / around sales though, my best effort was when working in a hobby shop, a bloke came in wanting a jigsaw puzzle and I sold him a £700 radio controlled tank.

There seems to be a lot of negativity towards people who work in sales as though they are some form of con artist? Seems very harsh!

Do you think he really wanted the tank, and enjoyed it so much that he didn't regret buying it afterwards?

If yes, fair enough. If no, you're a con artist.

The entire point of using money to measure growth is that, for every £1 I spend, I gain a proportionate amount of utility. If that ceases to hold true - because, for example, someone better at psychology than me persuades me to make bad purchasing decisions that I wouldn't otherwise - then growth and income cease to become useful, except for self-congratulatory sales types, because they're no longer accurately representing utility.

Edited by paranoid airbag on Wednesday 23 July 12:52

[stuartmmcfc]

paranoid airbag said:

C.A.R. said:

I almost pursued a job in car sales for Vauxhall a few years ago, but like many others have pointed out already, the hours put me off.

I've always worked in / around sales though, my best effort was when working in a hobby shop, a bloke came in wanting a jigsaw puzzle and I sold him a £700 radio controlled tank.

There seems to be a lot of negativity towards people who work in sales as though they are some form of con artist? Seems very harsh!

Do you think he really wanted the tank, and enjoyed it so much that he didn't regret buying it afterwards?

If yes, fair enough. If no, you're a con artist.

The entire point of using money to measure growth is that, for every £1 I spend, I gain a proportionate amount of utility. If that ceases to hold true - because, for example, someone better at psychology than me persuades me to make bad purchasing decisions that I wouldn't otherwise - then growth and income cease to become useful, except for self-congratulatory sales types, because they're no longer accurately representing utility.

Edited by paranoid airbag on Wednesday 23 July 12:52

especially when he got home and told his Wife how much it cost

[TLandCruiser]

A great British phenom about how a skewed perception one can have when it comes to jobs;

1) Every other job is over paid
2) Its easy to do, its just xyz
3) without me my company would fall apart.

its a pet hate of mine, why in papers do they always mentions someones salary and how people can be so judgmental on other peoples professions when in reality they know fk all about it and have never done it. (Im aware the OP has had a sales role, Im just expanding on my post)

[MajorProblem]

There was a thread on here in 2008 called "how thick" by car.chic, telling tales of how thick car buyers were,

Can't quote the posts as it's archived,

[Ari]

Butter Face said:

Gasp, shock horror, stop the press.

'Product you can buy online CHEAPER than out in the real world'

Ari, the Daily Mail will love that one, they'll show pictures of car dealerships with the rough valuations of what they cost to build, they'll show demonstrators with their OTR prices.

Get them emailed mate, you could get paid for that story right there....

Yeah, well done mate. And of course, you'd pay £150 for something you could buy easily for £50 on line wouldn't you?

[Ari]

POORCARDEALER said:

Ari said:

-Z- said:

Nope, dental school. Although they are comparable these days

Pffft. You can become a dentist inside 10 years. Takes double that to become a car salesman. Apparently.

What an odd career choice, looking in peoples mouths all day, with the added bonus of a bad back after a few years.....

They earn a fraction of the money too apparently...

[stuartmmcfc]

Ari said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Ari said:

-Z- said:

Nope, dental school. Although they are comparable these days

Pffft. You can become a dentist inside 10 years. Takes double that to become a car salesman. Apparently.

What an odd career choice, looking in peoples mouths all day, with the added bonus of a bad back after a few years.....

They earn a fraction of the money too apparently...

This is true,
My Sister and her husband are both private Dentists with their own practice and they're always pleading poverty.
They're only going to Barbadod once this year as apparently it's full of car salesman nowadays.

[POORCARDEALER]

stuartmmcfc said:

Ari said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Ari said:

-Z- said:

Nope, dental school. Although they are comparable these days

Pffft. You can become a dentist inside 10 years. Takes double that to become a car salesman. Apparently.

What an odd career choice, looking in peoples mouths all day, with the added bonus of a bad back after a few years.....

They earn a fraction of the money too apparently...

This is true,
My Sister and her husband are both private Dentists with their own practice and they're always pleading poverty.
They're only going to Barbadod once this year as apparently it's full of car salesman nowadays.

Never heard of Babadod, is it near Bradford?

[Fox-]

PH, where everyone thinks everyone is like them and can't understand how others differ.

I get it, honestly I do. I don't 'need' a salesman when I buy my cars. I find the one I want on the manufacturers AUC website. I phone up and ask for more info. If they tell me it's a minter and we can get to a price we both like, I put a deposit on it, go up, and drive it away. A 'test drive' will be about making sure the car isn't broken rather than deciding if I fancy it. The end. Frankly the receptionist probably could arrange all that for me. I get zero value out of the salesman side of the process. They didn't sell me GAP, paint protection, or finance. If I was assured of it's condition I could probably have done the entire thing online if it was offered. I knew more about the cars specification than the salesman. Wow, look at me, aren't I special? lets change the entire business model to suit my needs. Obviously, salesmen, pointless, right? Lets do away with them?

Of course not, guess what guys - we are not like everyone else in the car buying market. Most people don't do those things. Most people wander around getting a feel for what they want and yes, a decent salesman CAN get somebody who wasn't buying to buy on impulse. Yes, they sometimes stitch them up with crap they don't need but surely that's business?. This is a world now where people are obsessed with what everything costs per month. A skilled salesman can get somebody who came in for a quick look at a base model into a top model because its only XYZ per month. An order taker could not do that.

Plus how much longer would we be able to call dealerships up the other end of the country, whack a deposit down on something nice at a great price and then pitch up and drive it away with no hassle if they didn't make enough money on all the other deals - the deals the sales team need to work for - in order to make it profitable to sell to us at lower margins?

[stuartmmcfc]

POORCARDEALER said:

stuartmmcfc said:

Ari said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Ari said:

-Z- said:

Nope, dental school. Although they are comparable these days

Pffft. You can become a dentist inside 10 years. Takes double that to become a car salesman. Apparently.

What an odd career choice, looking in peoples mouths all day, with the added bonus of a bad back after a few years.....

They earn a fraction of the money too apparently...

This is true,
My Sister and her husband are both private Dentists with their own practice and they're always pleading poverty.
They're only going to Barbadod once this year as apparently it's full of car salesman nowadays.

Never heard of Babadod, is it near Bradford?

If you're going to make fun of my fat fingers with their inability to press the right keys, at least spell my mistake correctly

[POORCARDEALER]

stuartmmcfc said:

POORCARDEALER said:

stuartmmcfc said:

Ari said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Ari said:

-Z- said:

Nope, dental school. Although they are comparable these days

Pffft. You can become a dentist inside 10 years. Takes double that to become a car salesman. Apparently.

What an odd career choice, looking in peoples mouths all day, with the added bonus of a bad back after a few years.....

They earn a fraction of the money too apparently...

This is true,
My Sister and her husband are both private Dentists with their own practice and they're always pleading poverty.
They're only going to Barbadod once this year as apparently it's full of car salesman nowadays.

Never heard of Babadod, is it near Bradford?

If you're going to make fun of my fat fingers with their inability to press the right keys, at least spell my mistake correctly

Funnily enough I have not heard of Barbadod either, so its doubtful its the salesmans number one holiday destination choice.