is car sales one of the most overrated jobs around ?
Discussion
DoubleSix said:
nick s said:
who overrates car salesman? Career success wise, I see them as about equivalent to someone who works in PC world or something? I genuinely assumed that everyone else did aswell...
Classy. Whatever your opinions perhaps you could temper them with some manners.
If car salesmen think they are some sort of mystical Jedi knight that can sell anything to anyone, then they are mistaken.
There is nothing wrong with what he said as such. But there are not many people in PC world earning 50 grand a year and driving a BMW around as a company car I doubt. So while you may not value what they do, I don't think they're on par with a college student selling USB sticks for £3. After all, a car is usually the 2nd most expensive (or first for some of our Northern PH'ers I would imagine) purchase after a house, its not really a FMCG item.
I'll chip in, although not related to car sales. I sell financial services (B2B) by day, part-own an IT recruitment company and worked in estate agency back in the day.
In my opinion, in order to be a GOOD salesperson, it requires a huge amount of work and dedication. Generally the best people for the job are young, have little in the way of commitments (due to the long/unsociable hours), are money-motivated and have little in the way of previous sales experience. The reason for this isn't so the employers can pay them less, it's because they won't have picked up nasty habits from elsewhere and they can be molded into the ideal skillset for what is required for the role.
"How could I have approached that conversation better from the outset?"
"How could I have countered their objection better?"
"How will I take control of that conversation and guide it in a way that I won't arrive at the same objection?" etc etc.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Salespeople have to be extremely dynamic and agile in their approach, and have the discipline and self-awareness to be constantly picking out weaknesses and building on them. They need to be very quick on their feet when facing questions and objections and thus need to know the products inside-out, as well as your competition's products so you know what features of your product are those to concentrate on selling.
It certainly isn't a career for everyone, and there are a lot of people in sales that probably shouldn't be. My advice would be to do your research and speak to insiders extensively before getting lured in by the advertised potential salary or observing someone on face-value, because it is much harder than it seems. Yes, some things do sell themselves; The best salespeople are those who actively create the need, rather than passively catering for it.
TL;DR - there are very little barriers to entry and these jobs are easy to obtain, but in order to be successful in any form of sales - including car sales - you need to be willing to put in vast amounts of time and effort into your work which is often overlooked by prospective, inexperienced of failing salespeople. This is the difference between the good and the bad, and is reflected in the money they ultimately make out of it.
trickywoo said:
Sales jobs in all industries are generally overrated. Recruitment consultants are another example.
Like all industries, there is a HUGE amount of rubbish recruitment firms, estate agencies, etc...markmullen said:
...there are no barriers to entry and they could come and have a go
... and this is one of the reasons for it. A large number of young, inexperienced salespeople flock to jobs such as this because theyre often taken in by the lofty OTE earnings figures attached to these jobs by the employer. I commonly see IT Recruitment Consultant jobs advertised as £50k OTE from the minute you step through the door, with zero clients of your own and zero experience of how to get them. Applicants often have absolutely no idea about how dedicated you need to be to your own personal development and the hours you need to put in to succeed.In my opinion, in order to be a GOOD salesperson, it requires a huge amount of work and dedication. Generally the best people for the job are young, have little in the way of commitments (due to the long/unsociable hours), are money-motivated and have little in the way of previous sales experience. The reason for this isn't so the employers can pay them less, it's because they won't have picked up nasty habits from elsewhere and they can be molded into the ideal skillset for what is required for the role.
johnny fotze said:
It's not a job that requires much technical skill or even a significant amount of training...
You're right in the sense that it doesn't require academic skill, and there is no way of putting sales ability or future potential in a quantifiable/measurable format. The most important part of a sales job is the attitude that the person possesses. They need to be able to face rejection multiple times a day and bounce back and stay motivated, but also have the knowledge and ability to counter and positively spin the objections they face from potential customers (whether it be cost, competition, time etc etc). Every time you have an unsuccessful pitch or find a new stumbling block, the GOOD salespeople are thinking:"How could I have approached that conversation better from the outset?"
"How could I have countered their objection better?"
"How will I take control of that conversation and guide it in a way that I won't arrive at the same objection?" etc etc.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Salespeople have to be extremely dynamic and agile in their approach, and have the discipline and self-awareness to be constantly picking out weaknesses and building on them. They need to be very quick on their feet when facing questions and objections and thus need to know the products inside-out, as well as your competition's products so you know what features of your product are those to concentrate on selling.
It certainly isn't a career for everyone, and there are a lot of people in sales that probably shouldn't be. My advice would be to do your research and speak to insiders extensively before getting lured in by the advertised potential salary or observing someone on face-value, because it is much harder than it seems. Yes, some things do sell themselves; The best salespeople are those who actively create the need, rather than passively catering for it.
TL;DR - there are very little barriers to entry and these jobs are easy to obtain, but in order to be successful in any form of sales - including car sales - you need to be willing to put in vast amounts of time and effort into your work which is often overlooked by prospective, inexperienced of failing salespeople. This is the difference between the good and the bad, and is reflected in the money they ultimately make out of it.
MRPULLHARD said:
Mr mullen , do sales people work sundays and the other 6 days in the week ? I think not and also when there is no customer there they often just flute around looking busy !
Yes, they work Sundays, and Saturdays, and evenings. As to fluting (sic) around looking busy, what does that really mean?MRPULLHARD said:
I am sure part of the reason cars are priced high at SCOM is the preparation involved in each one - whether that is valeting or servicing / repairs - you being nice to the customer doesn't really add much to the cars !
And, like this morning, when an international client emails me for advice at 3.10am and gets an answer at 3.14am on the £1.5 million car he's considering then I add nothing to the value of our service. Righto. Good job by MD knows a bit more about the business then you do isn't it.What did you do in your roles within dealerships to offer such insight?
TheEnd said:
DoubleSix said:
nick s said:
who overrates car salesman? Career success wise, I see them as about equivalent to someone who works in PC world or something? I genuinely assumed that everyone else did aswell...
Classy. Whatever your opinions perhaps you could temper them with some manners.
If car salesmen think they are some sort of mystical Jedi knight that can sell anything to anyone, then they are mistaken.
markmullen said:
You think? A lot of my friends are car salesmen, as am I, and I know plenty who are.
You probably shouldn't believe everything car salesmen tell you. 
markmullen said:
To be honest if you're not the hours aren't worth it.
To be fair, I'm going back a bit, but I remember reading an article where the then BMW UK MD was complaining about their dealership staff turnover being immense. It was the hours were pinpointed as the main problem but the article did say the average BMW salesperson made £30K year as if it wasn't worth doing the unsocial hours for that money.I can't imagine much has moved over the last few years to increase sales salaries. I'm sure I read on here recently that your typical Ford/Vx/Peugeot etc sales guy is making around £25K/yr. I suppose compared with working in other retail environments that's still not bad.
Sheepshanks said:
To be fair, I'm going back a bit, but I remember reading an article where the then BMW UK MD was complaining about their dealership staff turnover being immense. It was the hours were pinpointed as the main problem but the article did say the average BMW salesperson made £30K year as if it wasn't worth doing the unsocial hours for that money.
I can't imagine much has moved over the last few years to increase sales salaries. I'm sure I read on here recently that your typical Ford/Vx/Peugeot etc sales guy is making around £25K/yr. I suppose compared with working in other retail environments that's still not bad.
I would not do this job for £25,000 a year. I believe that some bigger PLC's will cap the salesmans salary/earnings, so they may struggle to top that figure. I can't imagine much has moved over the last few years to increase sales salaries. I'm sure I read on here recently that your typical Ford/Vx/Peugeot etc sales guy is making around £25K/yr. I suppose compared with working in other retail environments that's still not bad.
(Serious Question) How often do car salesmen do any actual 'selling' (rather than demonstrating and negotiating), ie. sell someone a car that they didn't specifically come into view (having seen it on Autotrader etc.) or to up-sell to a totally different car (not just paint protection or GAP insurance).
Don't really know why this topic comes up again and again. The car sales guys seem to do a good job defending themselves and I personally am won round by the argument they put.
As we all know, money doesn't grow on trees - if a salesman is good he earns good money. If he's not so good then he doesn't and could get the heave-ho - his gaffer wont pay his basic if he's not performing surely. Whats the problem? Clearly its not an easy job so why the hate?
Money is very rarely given away in the world of work - that's why business is business so presumably if a car salesman is doing well, then his superiors must think he/she is worth a good wage. Its a very easy equation to work. If the salesman feels undervalued then he knows where the door is just like the rest of us that have to work for a living.
As we all know, money doesn't grow on trees - if a salesman is good he earns good money. If he's not so good then he doesn't and could get the heave-ho - his gaffer wont pay his basic if he's not performing surely. Whats the problem? Clearly its not an easy job so why the hate?
Money is very rarely given away in the world of work - that's why business is business so presumably if a car salesman is doing well, then his superiors must think he/she is worth a good wage. Its a very easy equation to work. If the salesman feels undervalued then he knows where the door is just like the rest of us that have to work for a living.
Truckosaurus said:
(Serious Question) How often do car salesmen do any actual 'selling' (rather than demonstrating and negotiating), ie. sell someone a car that they didn't specifically come into view (having seen it on Autotrader etc.) or to up-sell to a totally different car (not just paint protection or GAP insurance).
I think it's mostly about maximising profit to a specific customer i.e. Giving away just enough to secure the sale but not so much as to erode margin. Anyone can sell £10 notes for £9 after all.
DoubleSix said:
I think it's mostly about maximising profit to a specific customer i.e. Giving away just enough to secure the sale but not so much as to erode margin.
Anyone can sell £10 notes for £9 after all.
Correct. I was paid on profit (for used cars, new were different).Anyone can sell £10 notes for £9 after all.
Also, gap insurance, tyre insurance, paint protection, they're not something people usually have in mind to buy when buying a car (not the average punter), it does take some selling to shift these. And I used to make as much money on flogging these, as I did the car.
Also, attempting to convert cash buyers into finance buyers, selling them the concept of switching your car for a new one etc. This does not work on everyone, but I think people on here forget that the average punter is not as clued up as a bunch of blokes on a car site. Often there were cash buyers who were clear they would not consider finance that came out with a PCP full of profit for us...
I must add, I don't sell cars anymore, I did it for a couple of years and decided the hours and the financial reward was not great enough. I was paid a basic salary of £10k, I don't think there were many guys of any seniority that had a basic salary beyond £20,000 at my large dealership, if you're earning good money, then its because you've done a good job. The best guy earned £70-80k + nearly every year without fail delivering a remarkable amount of cars. If this thread was in any way correct then everyone would have been doing the numbers he was doing, but I can assure you, they were not.
Edited by okgo on Monday 21st July 15:48
Car salesmen as selling tools exist only to convince the ill-informed of what they think they want.
New car buying process is surely: a) decide on car and spec; b) get a price from as many dealers as you can without losing the will to live; and c) trade them off each other until you can't get a better deal. Then just ignore the finance hard-sell, lifetime paint guff, GAP insurance, tyre insurance etc.
New car buying process is surely: a) decide on car and spec; b) get a price from as many dealers as you can without losing the will to live; and c) trade them off each other until you can't get a better deal. Then just ignore the finance hard-sell, lifetime paint guff, GAP insurance, tyre insurance etc.
Luckily for the UK retail market, not everyone is like the people on this site.
I struggle to comprehend how you don't seem to grasp how the MAJORITY of people operate. Take summer for example, its hot, people think it would be nice to go and have a look at a convertible mini to chop in the golf they have, they say they're just looking, you convince them to have a drive of a convertible (generate a bit of desire, bums on seats flogs cars and all that - it does, period), then you suggest a valuation on their car, suddenly this whim is becoming a reality and the gap between the two is a mere £150 a month away, and before they know it, they're sold in and you've sold them a car.
Not everyone sits at home in the dark scouring the internet, and jacking off on 'drive the deal' f
king people about all over the country to save £5 so they can brag about it on the MSE forum and feel pleased with themselves when they get to add that lower payment to their monthly expenses spreadsheet, its just not how 'most' people are.
I struggle to comprehend how you don't seem to grasp how the MAJORITY of people operate. Take summer for example, its hot, people think it would be nice to go and have a look at a convertible mini to chop in the golf they have, they say they're just looking, you convince them to have a drive of a convertible (generate a bit of desire, bums on seats flogs cars and all that - it does, period), then you suggest a valuation on their car, suddenly this whim is becoming a reality and the gap between the two is a mere £150 a month away, and before they know it, they're sold in and you've sold them a car.
Not everyone sits at home in the dark scouring the internet, and jacking off on 'drive the deal' f
king people about all over the country to save £5 so they can brag about it on the MSE forum and feel pleased with themselves when they get to add that lower payment to their monthly expenses spreadsheet, its just not how 'most' people are.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff