This drives me mad
Discussion
this drives me mad.
Don't these people realise that anybody who has killed a cyclist or someone by accident on the roads will have to live with that on their conscience for the rest of their lives?
Putting them in prison won't change their driving. Removing their licence won't change their driving. Giving them a fine and a few points won't change their driving.
What will change their driving, is the fact they are going to constantly think about the fact they've killed someone. The fact they've destroyed the lives of the person's family. The fact they've made a mistake that quite a few other people will routinely make, but they're unfortunate enough to end up killing someone as a result.
These people are going to need support and consolation, not punishing.
Does nobody understand that?
Don't these people realise that anybody who has killed a cyclist or someone by accident on the roads will have to live with that on their conscience for the rest of their lives?
Putting them in prison won't change their driving. Removing their licence won't change their driving. Giving them a fine and a few points won't change their driving.
What will change their driving, is the fact they are going to constantly think about the fact they've killed someone. The fact they've destroyed the lives of the person's family. The fact they've made a mistake that quite a few other people will routinely make, but they're unfortunate enough to end up killing someone as a result.
These people are going to need support and consolation, not punishing.
Does nobody understand that?
Is it talking about the people who are convicted of killing a cyclist through dangerous driving, or all people who hit cyclists and kill them? Because many of the latter are probably innocent of any crime.
Causing death by dangerous driving should almost always carry a custodial sentence, IMO, but I'm not sure that's what this article is about.
Causing death by dangerous driving should almost always carry a custodial sentence, IMO, but I'm not sure that's what this article is about.
doogz said:
Oh right. I see.
So people should be able to drive like complete cocks, and when they kill someone, they'll get away with it, no repurcussions whatsoever, because now they have to live with it.
Sounds fair.
Seems to be the general jist of it So people should be able to drive like complete cocks, and when they kill someone, they'll get away with it, no repurcussions whatsoever, because now they have to live with it.
Sounds fair.
Perhaps OP wouldn't get so mad if they thought a bit harder about the whole situation.
kambites said:
Is it talking about the people who are convicted of killing a cyclist through dangerous driving, or all people who hit cyclists and kill them? Because many of the latter are probably innocent of any crime.
Causing death by dangerous driving should almost always carry a custodial sentence, IMO, but I'm not sure that's what this article is about.
Also this.Causing death by dangerous driving should almost always carry a custodial sentence, IMO, but I'm not sure that's what this article is about.
The punishments dished out are supposed to be a deterrent to other drivers rather than a remedy for the driving habits of a driver that has already killed a cyclist.
Trouble is, deterrence only works if people identify that they are a danger in the first place, otherwise the belief is likely to be 'it'll never happen to me'. I doubt that many drivers go out of a morning with the intention of killing a cyclist.
The only answer is better driver training. I'd like every driver to have to go out on a bicycle for a week to learn first hand how vulnerable cyclists are on the roads.
Trouble is, deterrence only works if people identify that they are a danger in the first place, otherwise the belief is likely to be 'it'll never happen to me'. I doubt that many drivers go out of a morning with the intention of killing a cyclist.
The only answer is better driver training. I'd like every driver to have to go out on a bicycle for a week to learn first hand how vulnerable cyclists are on the roads.
It should be handled on a case by case basis.
I remember watching a Police, Camera, Action type program where a young women hit a cyclist on an unlit A road. The cyclist was in dark clothing with no reflectives or lights. The women thought she had hit an animal or similar so didn't stop, it was only when her father saw the damage and thought it would be a good idea to report the incident to the Police they found out she had hit and killed the cyclist. A very sad mistake but one which could of been avoided if the cyclist had taken the appropriate precautions to make himself visible!
I remember watching a Police, Camera, Action type program where a young women hit a cyclist on an unlit A road. The cyclist was in dark clothing with no reflectives or lights. The women thought she had hit an animal or similar so didn't stop, it was only when her father saw the damage and thought it would be a good idea to report the incident to the Police they found out she had hit and killed the cyclist. A very sad mistake but one which could of been avoided if the cyclist had taken the appropriate precautions to make himself visible!
Bradley1500 said:
It should be handled on a case by case basis.
I remember watching a Police, Camera, Action type program where a young women hit a cyclist on an unlit A road. The cyclist was in dark clothing with no reflectives or lights. The women thought she had hit an animal or similar so didn't stop, it was only when her father saw the damage and thought it would be a good idea to report the incident to the Police they found out she had hit and killed the cyclist. A very sad mistake but one which could of been avoided if the cyclist had taken the appropriate precautions to make himself visible!
I remember that as well. Good example!I remember watching a Police, Camera, Action type program where a young women hit a cyclist on an unlit A road. The cyclist was in dark clothing with no reflectives or lights. The women thought she had hit an animal or similar so didn't stop, it was only when her father saw the damage and thought it would be a good idea to report the incident to the Police they found out she had hit and killed the cyclist. A very sad mistake but one which could of been avoided if the cyclist had taken the appropriate precautions to make himself visible!
Surely no one would think that she should have gone to prison purely to deter others?
I commute by cycle to work most days. 8 mile journey each way, straight down some of the busiest roads in the city. My personal opinion is that we will always have cyclists being killed for various reasons, and although it would probably get me shouted at by friends and family directly affected by a cyclists death, I think number of deaths is at a very reasonable level considering the number of vehicles in London, and journeys made.
The good news is, as a cyclist your survival is generally in your hands. I am armed with good knowledge as a driver and cyclist. I ride extremely defensively and have no problem with taking primary if I think it's necessary. Situational awareness is also the key to uneventful journeys. I think if drivers see this confidence they will be patient and know they are dealing with an experienced cyclist, and give room and time.
I am extremely aware of how lightly some drivers get off after killing cyclists. This is just one more weapon in my armory, which keeps me alert and on my toes.
More cyclists need to stop being lazy and open your eyes when riding. Be more aware and proactive. It will save your life.
The good news is, as a cyclist your survival is generally in your hands. I am armed with good knowledge as a driver and cyclist. I ride extremely defensively and have no problem with taking primary if I think it's necessary. Situational awareness is also the key to uneventful journeys. I think if drivers see this confidence they will be patient and know they are dealing with an experienced cyclist, and give room and time.
I am extremely aware of how lightly some drivers get off after killing cyclists. This is just one more weapon in my armory, which keeps me alert and on my toes.
More cyclists need to stop being lazy and open your eyes when riding. Be more aware and proactive. It will save your life.
jimbop1 said:
I remember that as well. Good example!
Surely no one would think that she should have gone to prison purely to deter others?
It depends, if he dressed head to foot in black, painted his bike matt black, took off the legally required reflectives from pedals, wheels and behind him you could argue he was trying to commit suicide and she is the unwitting victim of him.Surely no one would think that she should have gone to prison purely to deter others?
jimbop1 said:
Bradley1500 said:
It should be handled on a case by case basis.
I remember watching a Police, Camera, Action type program where a young women hit a cyclist on an unlit A road. The cyclist was in dark clothing with no reflectives or lights. The women thought she had hit an animal or similar so didn't stop, it was only when her father saw the damage and thought it would be a good idea to report the incident to the Police they found out she had hit and killed the cyclist. A very sad mistake but one which could of been avoided if the cyclist had taken the appropriate precautions to make himself visible!
I remember that as well. Good example!I remember watching a Police, Camera, Action type program where a young women hit a cyclist on an unlit A road. The cyclist was in dark clothing with no reflectives or lights. The women thought she had hit an animal or similar so didn't stop, it was only when her father saw the damage and thought it would be a good idea to report the incident to the Police they found out she had hit and killed the cyclist. A very sad mistake but one which could of been avoided if the cyclist had taken the appropriate precautions to make himself visible!
Surely no one would think that she should have gone to prison purely to deter others?
danjama said:
I commute by cycle to work most days. 8 mile journey each way, straight down some of the busiest roads in the city. My personal opinion is that we will always have cyclists being killed for various reasons, and although it would probably get me shouted at by friends and family directly affected by a cyclists death, I think number of deaths is at a very reasonable level considering the number of vehicles in London, and journeys made.
The good news is, as a cyclist your survival is generally in your hands. I am armed with good knowledge as a driver and cyclist. I ride extremely defensively and have no problem with taking primary if I think it's necessary. Situational awareness is also the key to uneventful journeys. I think if drivers see this confidence they will be patient and know they are dealing with an experienced cyclist, and give room and time.
I am extremely aware of how lightly some drivers get off after killing cyclists. This is just one more weapon in my armory, which keeps me alert and on my toes.
More cyclists need to stop being lazy and open your eyes when riding. Be more aware and proactive. It will save your life.
Stop being so sensible and reasonable. The good news is, as a cyclist your survival is generally in your hands. I am armed with good knowledge as a driver and cyclist. I ride extremely defensively and have no problem with taking primary if I think it's necessary. Situational awareness is also the key to uneventful journeys. I think if drivers see this confidence they will be patient and know they are dealing with an experienced cyclist, and give room and time.
I am extremely aware of how lightly some drivers get off after killing cyclists. This is just one more weapon in my armory, which keeps me alert and on my toes.
More cyclists need to stop being lazy and open your eyes when riding. Be more aware and proactive. It will save your life.
My cycle commute isn't as long as yours or on such busy roads but I do drive lots of different stuff on roads and can see things from a variety or perspectives. Most people don't understand what it is like to cycle, or drive a lorry or a bus or ride a motorbike so have no idea how their actions effect those that do. Most days I get put at risk by others, but it's no good me getting my knickers is a twist about it, if I don't take responsibility for my safety it's hard to expect others to do so.
For the most part the roads are safe enough.
Willy Nilly said:
Stop being so sensible and reasonable.
My cycle commute isn't as long as yours or on such busy roads but I do drive lots of different stuff on roads and can see things from a variety or perspectives. Most people don't understand what it is like to cycle, or drive a lorry or a bus or ride a motorbike so have no idea how their actions effect those that do. Most days I get put at risk by others, but it's no good me getting my knickers is a twist about it, if I don't take responsibility for my safety it's hard to expect others to do so.
For the most part the roads are safe enough.
Yes, exactly. And that's a good point. There is a cycle training place near my office, and they get a lot of HGV/taxi drivers in for training, to experience the shoe on the other foot. There should be more of this. I sometimes drive vans of various sizes for work. Not long journeys at all, but I remember when I first started how much I learnt about life 'in the cab'. It changed everything for me, as a cyclist.My cycle commute isn't as long as yours or on such busy roads but I do drive lots of different stuff on roads and can see things from a variety or perspectives. Most people don't understand what it is like to cycle, or drive a lorry or a bus or ride a motorbike so have no idea how their actions effect those that do. Most days I get put at risk by others, but it's no good me getting my knickers is a twist about it, if I don't take responsibility for my safety it's hard to expect others to do so.
For the most part the roads are safe enough.
Interesting little video of Lee's cycle to work in that article, steady state cycling until it is apparent he can arrive alongside the parked car at around the same time as the car coming the other way if he accelerates a bit which he then does. What looks to be a reasonable gap left for him as well. Not saying the driver is right or wrong to go past the parked vehicle but if Lee had eased up a little then there would have been no incident at all but that wouldn't be good for the camera or is that the cynic in me.
There are good and bad drivers and good and bad cyclists, wife was recently hit in the rear while stationary by a good cyclist apparently, well according to him it was the other car drivers around them in 3 lanes of stop start traffic that caused the problem.
There are good and bad drivers and good and bad cyclists, wife was recently hit in the rear while stationary by a good cyclist apparently, well according to him it was the other car drivers around them in 3 lanes of stop start traffic that caused the problem.
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