RE: Audi RS5 TDI: Driven

RE: Audi RS5 TDI: Driven

Author
Discussion

zeppelin101

724 posts

191 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Clivey said:
Which car is that?

Don't get me wrong, an obviously turbocharged engine is part of the appeal of some cars. It's just that (IMO at least) BMWs performance engines are generally all about that furious charge to the redline. Even the "baby" M54B22 2.2 in my 320i has a lovely character and makes a nice noise, especially from 5,500rpm to the limiter. S54 "big Daddy" version of the engine is, without exaggeration, awesome. smokin

Compare the E46 M3 with the new M4; which one do you think will be the most sought after in say, 30 years?
Unfortunately I can't disclose the particular car. It was very much a thrown together car to assess the capability of the system.

I agree, but that isn't to say that with the use of systems like the e-boosters won't be useful in bringing that N/A performance feel back to some extent. The rest of it is down to the calibration which is hugely flexible.

Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Prawnboy said:
i think you need to read up on tesla and the like.

.
So how much is a Tesla and what range does it have smile

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Lost soul said:
So how much is a Tesla and what range does it have smile
It's designed as a 7-sieres/S-class competitor. It starts at around $100k (not sure of the UK list price); range with the larger battery pack is 265 miles on the EPA (the American combined fuel economy test, which is generally rather more realistic of actual driving than the European one); Tesla claim 300 max but as ever that figure needs to be taken with a handful of salt.

416bhp, 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. It's quite heavy though, well over two tonnes. smile

Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
It surprised me that so many of the anti diesel brigade are jumping on the electric band wagon , any economy gained with electric will be wiped out when it comes to battery replacement time

I am not anti petrol just pro diesel , I want internal combustion not electric

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Lost soul said:
I am not anti petrol just pro diesel , I want internal combustion not electric
That's fair enough. I couldn't care less about internal combustion, I want refinement, throttle response and performance.

Personally, I don't see battery replacement as an issue. The Tesla comes with an eight year unlimited mileage battery warranty. At average mileage, a diesel with comparable performance and luxury would have used about £20k's worth of fuel (assuming diesel prices don't rise); the Tesla will have used a tiny fraction of that. Currently, batteries currently cost less than £10k; in 8 years time they'll be maybe £5k probably more like £1k-£2k and significantly better.

ETA: The UK starting price seems to be £50k, although that's for the lower powered, lower range version. Of course BIK rates are very low, so it makes a more attractive company car proposition than the list price would imply.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 29th July 08:57

zeppelin101

724 posts

191 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
It's designed as a 7-sieres/S-class competitor. It starts at around $100k (not sure of the UK list price); range with the larger battery pack is 265 miles on the EPA (the American combined fuel economy test, which is generally rather more realistic of actual driving than the European one); Tesla claim 300 max but as ever that figure needs to be taken with a handful of salt.

416bhp, 0-60 in 4.2 seconds. It's quite heavy though, well over two tonnes. smile
Actually the Federal cycle is no better in terms of fuel economy realism. The EPA label figures are adjusted by a %age after the fact.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
zeppelin101 said:
Actually the Federal cycle is no better in terms of fuel economy realism. The EPA label figures are adjusted by a %age after the fact.
I guess that makes sense. Still, whilst the test might be just as fudgeable in percentage terms, the final published result tends to at least be of the correct order of magnitude.

Prawnboy

1,326 posts

146 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
Lost soul said:
I am not anti petrol just pro diesel , I want internal combustion not electric
That's fair enough. I couldn't care less about internal combustion, I want refinement, throttle response and performance.


Edited by kambites on Tuesday 29th July 08:47
especially the refinement, the problem i have the most with diesel cars.

Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Prawnboy said:
kambites said:
Lost soul said:
I am not anti petrol just pro diesel , I want internal combustion not electric
That's fair enough. I couldn't care less about internal combustion, I want refinement, throttle response and performance.


Edited by kambites on Tuesday 29th July 08:47
especially the refinement, the problem i have the most with diesel cars.
My A5 D is plenty refined

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Lost soul said:
It surprised me that so many of the anti diesel brigade are jumping on the electric band wagon , any economy gained with electric will be wiped out when it comes to battery replacement time

I am not anti petrol just pro diesel , I want internal combustion not electric
The Tesla S performance comes with 8 years unlimited miles battery warranty - note that range will be reduced gradually as battery degrades so say in year 15 you might have only 75% of the original charge ability that means the 300 mile range is simply reduced to 225 miles. UK will have supercharged throughout the UK by end of 2015/16 which is 40 mins to fully charge at zero cost / while you have a toilet break and a coffee.

Prawnboy

1,326 posts

146 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Lost soul said:
My A5 D is plenty refined
for a diesel.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
... will have supercharged throughout the UK by end of 2015/16...
Have they stated that as their goal? It sounds very optimistic!

alock

4,224 posts

210 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
UK will have supercharged throughout the UK by end of 2015/16 which is 40 mins to fully charge at zero cost / while you have a toilet break and a coffee.
I'd love an electric car for my daily commute, but I struggle with these bays as a charging concept. We were delayed by ~4 hours driving to the lakes on Friday. There were thousands of extra vehicles on the roads. It doesn't take many of them to use all the stations and your 40 mins becomes 5 hours because you are 6th in line.

Clivey

5,108 posts

203 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
alock said:
I'd love an electric car for my daily commute, but I struggle with these bays as a charging concept. We were delayed by ~4 hours driving to the lakes on Friday. There were thousands of extra vehicles on the roads. It doesn't take many of them to use all the stations and your 40 mins becomes 5 hours because you are 6th in line.
I would imagine the number of charging points will increase with the percentage of electric cars. Unfortunately, I also predict that as electric cars gain in popularity, the Govt. will find a way to tax them (as always).


kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Clivey said:
Unfortunately, I also predict that as electric cars gain in popularity, the Govt. will find a way to tax them (as always).
Certainly, the question is whether whatever they choose also hits ICE powered cars. They could either somehow tax the electricity itself, which would obviously close the running cost gap between EV and ICE; or they could introduce blanket road tolls, which would not.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
Welshbeef said:
... will have supercharged throughout the UK by end of 2015/16...
Have they stated that as their goal? It sounds very optimistic!
http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/supercharger

http://m.wardsauto.com/europe/tesla-steps-uk-effor...

http://www.cityam.com/blog/1402313234/how-far-tesl...
It looks like 11 super charger sites by the end of 2014 to include
London, Leeds Plymouth Exeter Liverpool Bristol Birmingham Edinburgh and one other .

By end of 2015 they will have 23 sites superchargers.


These superchargers actually take 20 mins not 40 and give you 150mile additional range

£50k starting price

Also what is interesting is he is offering Leaf Zoe and other EV to get free juice for a one off fee. A smart cookie that 21 year old Billionaire.

alock

4,224 posts

210 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
These superchargers actually take 20 mins not 40 and give you 150mile additional range.
And I've sometimes been 3rd in line for a petrol pump.

fatboy b

9,492 posts

215 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Lost soul said:
My A5 D is plenty refined
I thought so too, until I got the Jag.

Clivey

5,108 posts

203 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
Certainly, the question is whether whatever they choose also hits ICE powered cars. They could either somehow tax the electricity itself, which would obviously close the running cost gap between EV and ICE; or they could introduce blanket road tolls, which would not.
In which case, I'd say we need another, more successful, Guy Fawkes.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
Certainly, the question is whether whatever they choose also hits ICE powered cars. They could either somehow tax the electricity itself, which would obviously close the running cost gap between EV and ICE; or they could introduce blanket road tolls, which would not.
But what if you can generate your own electricity?
Solar panels
Wind
And if your lucky enough to have a stream then that also will generate electricity


The only way EVs can be taxed properly from a fuel duty is road pricing. Hugely costly to set up OR massively increase the VED to capture all the duty required could be in tiers up to 5k miles upto 10k etc. Very little cost to set up vs road pricing and could be live by April 2015...