Start stop - Actually worthwhile, or pointless eco gimmick?
Discussion
I've only been a passenger in a diesel Focus with this fitted, and it irritated me immediately from the passenger seat! Maybe that says a lot about me though...
On a related note, I was chatting to a work colleague about it the other day and he said that his brother has his own garage business and his brother reckons that it's actually the alternator that starts the car again.....
I just nodded politely.
On a related note, I was chatting to a work colleague about it the other day and he said that his brother has his own garage business and his brother reckons that it's actually the alternator that starts the car again.....
I just nodded politely.
paranoid airbag said:
Kozy said:
stop start rubbish.
Minus 10 points for "asking a question" when you've clearly already made up your mind. If what you want to say is "it's a pointless gimmick" come out and say it the defend your opinion. Or ask a question in a genuinely open-minded way.Anyways, new battery time if you're having trouble starting?
BFG TERRANO said:
What about heater in winter and a/c in summer? Do they pause while the engine is off?
No, they continue, and then the ECU thinks too much juice is being drained, so the engine starts. That is a real pain when you are waiting for your wife to stop talking to a neighbour, and get back in the car, and the pre-emptive engine start sounds like you being impatient.Been there.
Baz Tench said:
I've only been a passenger in a diesel Focus with this fitted, and it irritated me immediately from the passenger seat! Maybe that says a lot about me though...
On a related note, I was chatting to a work colleague about it the other day and he said that his brother has his own garage business and his brother reckons that it's actually the alternator that starts the car again.....
I just nodded politely.
Nod politely you may; but it's true!On a related note, I was chatting to a work colleague about it the other day and he said that his brother has his own garage business and his brother reckons that it's actually the alternator that starts the car again.....
I just nodded politely.
'Citroën[edit]
Citroën introduced a more refined system in its C2 and C3 models by 2006, named "Stop and Start". The Citroën implementation combines a SensoDrive automated gearbox and an electronically controlled reversible alternator[6] or integrated starter-generator (ISG). An ISG, also known as "integrated starter-alternator", combines the role of the starter and alternator into one unit; manufacturers include Valeo[7] and Denso.'
Taken from a Wikipedia page. I was sure I'd heard that somewhere before so looked it up.
MrDan said:
Iv got it on my New Golf 7 R , I get the idea but to me its another thing to go wrong.
and in all honesty.. I bought a 300hp Hatchback, economy is not at the front of my mind... Its like having a ordering a diet coke with a supersize big mac meal
you might not care about economy, but the EU does care about emissions, that stop and start function will probably be why the engineers were able to get 300hp not 295hp and still be within the carbon rating they were targeting.and in all honesty.. I bought a 300hp Hatchback, economy is not at the front of my mind... Its like having a ordering a diet coke with a supersize big mac meal
emissions is the real reason for stop and start
Hooli said:
J4CKO said:
Saying that, VW did this in the nineties on a Golf called an Ecomatic, if you want one of those, hurry as there are only four left !
They did it before that. I had an 'A' (83/84?) reg Polo Formul E (or some such name) with it.Encountered it in a BMW 320d.
To start with it was a little annoying, but soon got used to it. And contrary to ideas from the first page you don't need to press the starter button to go again, just touch the accelerator and it fires up straight away.
Inobtrusive, and if it reduces noise and pollution in cities then why would you think it's a bad idea?
To start with it was a little annoying, but soon got used to it. And contrary to ideas from the first page you don't need to press the starter button to go again, just touch the accelerator and it fires up straight away.
Inobtrusive, and if it reduces noise and pollution in cities then why would you think it's a bad idea?
I was very cynical about stop/start before I got my current car. I thought it would drain the battery and I'd be left flounding at the lights.
I couldn't have been more wrong. On my normal commute, I've tried several runs with the system switched on and off and Without altering my driving style I see an improvement of between 2 and 3 MPG on a mixed motorway and urban 23 mile journey. That soon adds up.
In addition, batteries have moved on a bit from the 1970s technology I started with. The battery in my 1 series is huge and it has never hesitated to start under all conditions.
It requires a "DSA approved" handbrake-neutral whenever you come to a stop, but the restart is almost instantaneous when you press the clutch and I've never managed to beat it by engaging a gear before the engine starts. It helps if you can anticipate the lights changing and the traffic moving off, so you find yourself looking for clues in reflections and movements.
The only times I have disabled the system have been when it is very warm and I want the air-con to keep blowing cold.
Mrs L has a Mini Cooper with stop/start. We noticed that the system had stopped working and it turned out that the car required a new battery (done under warranty). So if the battery starts to become weak, the start/stop stops working and the engine remains on all the time, seemingly to prevent the car from failing to start.
I couldn't have been more wrong. On my normal commute, I've tried several runs with the system switched on and off and Without altering my driving style I see an improvement of between 2 and 3 MPG on a mixed motorway and urban 23 mile journey. That soon adds up.
In addition, batteries have moved on a bit from the 1970s technology I started with. The battery in my 1 series is huge and it has never hesitated to start under all conditions.
It requires a "DSA approved" handbrake-neutral whenever you come to a stop, but the restart is almost instantaneous when you press the clutch and I've never managed to beat it by engaging a gear before the engine starts. It helps if you can anticipate the lights changing and the traffic moving off, so you find yourself looking for clues in reflections and movements.
BFG TERRANO said:
What about heater in winter and a/c in summer? Do they pause while the engine is off?
BMWs system seems to be quite smart. Start/stop remains switched off automatically when it is cold and the heater is switched on, until the engine and cabin temperature have warmed up. When the engine stops, the heater blower slows to reduce the battery drain, and if you remain stationary for some time, the battery condition is constantly monitered and the engine re-starts if any voltage drop is detected.The only times I have disabled the system have been when it is very warm and I want the air-con to keep blowing cold.
Mrs L has a Mini Cooper with stop/start. We noticed that the system had stopped working and it turned out that the car required a new battery (done under warranty). So if the battery starts to become weak, the start/stop stops working and the engine remains on all the time, seemingly to prevent the car from failing to start.
budgie smuggler said:
Anybody used Mazda's new system? It doesn't use the starter but instead it knows which cyclinder currently is in the right phase of the cycle and simply ignites it with the spark plug. Meant to be a lot quicker.
eta:
Yep, I have it in my current Mazda3 and had it in my previous Mazda6 (current shape) both diesel... It still uses the starter motor on restart, but only to initiate engine rotation, but it still starts way quicker than you can get it into gear and is supposed to be the quickest restart of all of the SISS.eta:
mazda said:
To restart the engine by combustion, the compression-stroke and expansion-stroke pistons need to be stopped at exactly the correct positions to create the right balance of air volumes. Mazda's i-stop ensures precise control over the piston positions during engine shutdown. With all the pistons stopped at the optimum positions, the system then identifies the initial cylinder for fuel injection. It injects fuel and ignites it to restart the engine. Even at extremely low rpm, cylinders are identified for sequential ignition, making the engine quickly pick up to idling speed.
http://www.mazda.com/technology/env/i-stop/Earlier in the thread someone mentioned allowing the car to roll and restart, I'm not sure about other SS systems, but on the Mazda system, if the vehicle starts to move, it automatically restarts for safety - primarily to ensure that there is sufficient brake vacuum available.
Mazda have added a couple of cool little screens on the info screen which kind of encourage you to use the system. One of them monitors your time with the engine stopped and shows a tree growing as the time builds up, the other shows the % of time stationary that was under I-stop.
loose cannon said:
Poor little turbos getting fried when the engine suddenly turns off after a spirited run
Our TDI Yeti, after a bout of heavy turbo use, wont't cut the engine out for the first time you come to a stand still, and it says this is to assist in cooling the turbo.GetCarter said:
BFG TERRANO said:
What about heater in winter and a/c in summer? Do they pause while the engine is off?
No, they continue, and then the ECU thinks too much juice is being drained, so the engine starts. That is a real pain when you are waiting for your wife to stop talking to a neighbour, and get back in the car, and the pre-emptive engine start sounds like you being impatient.Been there.
Ours doesn't do that, if you've got the air conditioning going and the fan speed is set to the highest, or the heating is set pretty high, the engine won't cut out.
Definitely not going to be good for turbos constantly having their oil supply cut off. Also not going to do the starter motor any favours.
What you may save in small amounts may come back to bite you with a large bill in the future.
My work van(Sprinter) has it and I used to just turn it off before our new trackers that measure everything you do were fitted. I found it annoying when trying to pull away quickly. The starter motor lasted less than 100K miles, so if I had been using it for all of those miles it would no doubt have died even sooner.
What you may save in small amounts may come back to bite you with a large bill in the future.
My work van(Sprinter) has it and I used to just turn it off before our new trackers that measure everything you do were fitted. I found it annoying when trying to pull away quickly. The starter motor lasted less than 100K miles, so if I had been using it for all of those miles it would no doubt have died even sooner.
More complicated stuff we don't need.
Sure, we can make a beefy starter motor, but the electronics and control systems it needs is just another added complexity to the vehicle and god knows they are laden with complexity these days.
The only loser is the hapless punter when all this stuff starts going wrong and has to pay main dealer labour + expensive parts to sort it out.
Sure, we can make a beefy starter motor, but the electronics and control systems it needs is just another added complexity to the vehicle and god knows they are laden with complexity these days.
The only loser is the hapless punter when all this stuff starts going wrong and has to pay main dealer labour + expensive parts to sort it out.
Superhoop said:
Earlier in the thread someone mentioned allowing the car to roll and restart, I'm not sure about other SS systems, but on the Mazda system, if the vehicle starts to move, it automatically restarts for safety - primarily to ensure that there is sufficient brake vacuum available.
The Renault system does this too; once you hit about 3mph on a gentle coast, the engine fires up. The Renault system itself only works within certain peramiters; it all depends on the exterior ambiance temperature, engine temperature, battery power and what is running within the car i.e. A/C, rear screen, heats seats etc, sometimes if stationary for sometime it will just fire up by itself, also when it is activated and the engine is stopped, if the A/C is on you will notice the fan speed will drop.
We were told on a course that the engine has to be off for only 3 seconds for there to be a benefit.
We run a couple of Hyundai i30 diesels as company pool cars; not bad little boxes, at all. The autostop feature can be disabled with a button, and doing so makes not a damn difference to fuel economy* and the result a lot more fluid to drive in traffic.
- They're reporting averages of c.54mpg each, which for the use they get is pretty amazing.
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