Start stop - Actually worthwhile, or pointless eco gimmick?

Start stop - Actually worthwhile, or pointless eco gimmick?

Author
Discussion

EricE

1,945 posts

128 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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My car doesn’t have start/stop but when I drive a car that has it, I always deactivate it. It just feels "wrong" and counter intuitive to me as someone who spends a lot of time in old classic cars that require a lot of mechanical sympathy.

I know that the starter is dimensioned to handle all the starts, I know that AGM batteries are ok with the additional cycles, I know that the electric pumps keep cooling the turbos even when the engine is off, I know that newer cars use the front parking sensors to start the engine when the car in front of you starts to pull away and still… in my eyes it isn’t not worth it. I always hit the button to deactivate it. tongue out

caraddict

1,092 posts

143 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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I'm getting my first modern car soon and after having driven just old cars for so many years, this stop/start thing was very annoying. Mainly because I couldn't stop thinking that it was bad for the engine, especially when you start driving a cold engine in the morning.
My next car (BMW F36) will have it and it has a button next to the engine start button which deactivated the start/stop thing. But you have to manually turn the function off every time, which I did with the demonstration cars I borrowed.

I wonder how it feels in winter. Does the start/stop reduce heater power/output?

I would like it so much better in a diesel (because I hate the noise/vibrations when stationary) than a petrol which is quiet enough anyway.

Connelly1888

4 posts

116 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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I've had it in a few hire cars I've had and I reckon it's just a gimmick to appease the Eco fiends. Unless your stuck in traffic a lot, most your going to gain is 1-2 mpg. As others have said it ain't much for the problems it could cause

I'm a marine engineer and I've always been told that starting an engine is the same as about 4 hours of normal running. This is completely different from a car engine due to the sheer difference in size. When starting a 3000kw v12, the forces on the crank are unbelievable. There must be some correlation between them though, all that stop start ain't good for the engine or ancilliarys!

Rawwr

22,722 posts

233 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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MrDan said:
Iv got it on my New Golf 7 R , I get the idea but to me its another thing to go wrong.

and in all honesty.. I bought a 300hp Hatchback, economy is not at the front of my mind... Its like having a ordering a diet coke with a supersize big mac meal
Just out of interest, how much of that 300bhp you bought are you using when at a standstill? smile

romeogolf

2,056 posts

118 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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I've got a start-stop feature on my SLK250 CDI.

Being an auto 'box it simply cuts out whenever you're stationery. It's a little irritating at junctions/roundabouts when you need to get away quickly so sometimes I flick it off. Other times I use a little trick of not depressing the brake very hard at all. The engine stays running if the pedal is only very lightly pressed so if I'm careful I can get away quickly.

The system is useful in heavier traffic, such as a jam on the motorway or at lights. The feature doesn't activate until the engine is already up to temperature and in the winter sometimes doesn't come on for weeks at a time. When it's not working I feel quite wasteful sitting at lights with the engine on!

TankRizzo

7,247 posts

192 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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Drove an S-Class a couple of months ago that auto-starts the engine when the traffic lights change to red & amber, I thought I was going mad for a bit until I realised. Astonishing.

Baz Tench

5,648 posts

189 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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MagneticMeerkat said:
Baz Tench said:
I've only been a passenger in a diesel Focus with this fitted, and it irritated me immediately from the passenger seat! Maybe that says a lot about me though...

On a related note, I was chatting to a work colleague about it the other day and he said that his brother has his own garage business and his brother reckons that it's actually the alternator that starts the car again.....


I just nodded politely.
Nod politely you may; but it's true!

'Citroën[edit]

Citroën introduced a more refined system in its C2 and C3 models by 2006, named "Stop and Start". The Citroën implementation combines a SensoDrive automated gearbox and an electronically controlled reversible alternator[6] or integrated starter-generator (ISG). An ISG, also known as "integrated starter-alternator", combines the role of the starter and alternator into one unit; manufacturers include Valeo[7] and Denso.'

Taken from a Wikipedia page. I was sure I'd heard that somewhere before so looked it up.
I thought somebody might come along and prove me wrong.

Indeed, at least it was a polite nod.

blank

3,439 posts

187 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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caraddict said:
I would like it so much better in a diesel (because I hate the noise/vibrations when stationary) than a petrol which is quiet enough anyway.
Wouldn't count on it, they usually give a big old jolt/clatter when they stop and start.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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Doesn't it cost hundreds in labour for a simple battery change? BMW have to recode etc for the new battery is what I read...

heretheygo

1,117 posts

204 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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On the DS4 when the car has the stop start engaged not only does the AC goes off when it stops, but it clunks/shudders if you're trying to get some power down to go up a hill from start up. Doing that when crossing traffic on an incline is not reassuring. It's crude at best. The saving grace is that it can be deselected at any time but you need to do so each time you drive. The eco friendly angle is an absurd notion - so many other more frugal cars around.
A gimmick imo, bit like the electronic parking brake.......

clarkey

1,365 posts

283 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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It works well on my 2001 Honda Insight. Dip the clutch under 20mph and the engine cuts out. put it in gear or lift the clutch and it starts again, using the electric motor rather than the 12v battery and starter motor. if there isn't enough charge in the battery it won't cut out.

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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Jimboka said:
Doesn't it cost hundreds in labour for a simple battery change? BMW have to recode etc for the new battery is what I read...
A mate did one in an A4 or A6 around xmas, ended up at about £400 including battery I think.

PinkRinse

365 posts

168 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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I had it a Golf BlueMotion work hired for me for a while and whilst Start/Stop was a little disconcerting, the mpg seemed to be much better. Of course I haven't driven a "non" Bluemotion Golf or one without Start/Stop for an accurate comparison, but the 700+ miles I got from a tank more than impressed me.

After a while I completely forgot about the Start/Stop. It never really bothered me and I don't remember being "left in the lurch" at lights or in traffic etc.

V8Ford

2,675 posts

165 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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You wouldn't want it on a V8. Half the enjoyment is sitting in traffic listening to the hypnotic lumpy idle tongue out

okie592

2,711 posts

166 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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PinkRinse said:
I had it a Golf BlueMotion work hired for me for a while and whilst Start/Stop was a little disconcerting, the mpg seemed to be much better. Of course I haven't driven a "non" Bluemotion Golf or one without Start/Stop for an accurate comparison, but the 700+ miles I got from a tank more than impressed me.

After a while I completely forgot about the Start/Stop. It never really bothered me and I don't remember being "left in the lurch" at lights or in traffic etc.
I also have it on my golf, it's good, cuts out the engine when you stop and take it out of gear, cuts in as soon as you put the clutch down so your no more left in the lurch than yoj normally would be, doesn't rattle the car or anything. I do turn it off now and then in really stop star traffic which defeats the point I guess.

Only thing I don't like is it turns off the air con too.

brickwall

5,192 posts

209 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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I actually quite like sitting in silence at the lights. Start-stop definitely has a place in city driving.

cptsideways

13,535 posts

251 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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I've used it in most of the current model cars for sale, works fine most of the time, my favourite is the in the Mazda6 & CX5 autos that is seamless.


Funnily enough my Lupo from 1999 has it! works quite well too even when the engine is cold just so long as the battery is charged & the electric heater is not on (which is a fab feature for cold wintry starts) Quite nice to shut up the rumbly 3 pot diesel, whats weird is it never restarts the engine by itself, it'll sit there for half hour no bother in stop mode.

David87

6,648 posts

211 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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Some systems seem much more keen to cut out than others. My wife's old R56 MINI Cooper S would cut the engine almost every time an opportunity presented itself, but her current Qashqai hardly does it at all. Odd.

lamboman100

1,445 posts

120 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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Some Fiat models had start-stop technology in the 1990s (possibly even as early as the 1980s).

Stop-start is not a new invention. It has been refined to the point today where it is fairly quick, usable and reliable.

As long as stop-start can be manually turned off (not everyone likes it), it is fine.

How much fuel it saves is open to debate. Some say 0%, others say as much as 10%+. On the whole, though, stop-start does not usually spend fuel.

GTIR

24,741 posts

265 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
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AC43 said:
I had it in a loaner E250 CDI.

It was the quietest chug-a-bug four pot I'd even driven. Well, until the damn engine clattered in to life each time the traffic moved sending shuddering juddering oscillations through the bodyshell.

Technically it worked very well. Shame it wasn't on a 6 pot diesel or, even better, a petrol.



Edited by AC43 on Wednesday 23 July 16:01


Edited by AC43 on Wednesday 23 July 16:03
I've got a chug-a-bug E250 and I think it's a pointless gimmick. I also think the idea the starters are beefed up is a myth. I've not know Mercedes starters to ever fail and I had one that did 460k!

Manufacturers put them on because all the others do.

As an aside my 07 E220 was much quiter than my current 13 E250. And yes it does rattle into life.