What's the most over-engineered "mainstream" car ever built?

[stephen300o]

Volvo 1800 is fairly overly engineered, not every car will do three million miles.

[benjj]

As already said above, the original Saab 900 is hard to beat for this kind of thing.

Even the door handles were engineered so they could be used to tow the car - imagine trying that with anything modern, even 6 figure plus cars...

[226bhp]

Mk2 Nissan Micra
Mazda 323
Volvo 740 & 240

[deanogtv]

I'd go with the VW Phaeton, if the grey cells are correct I seem to remember watching 5th Gear once and they went into great detail about how it shared a platform and components the Bentleys.

[rscott]

I'd agree with the previous nominations for Saabs. Certainly all up to the 9000 and possibly the GM900/9-3 and even early 9-5 (before they replaced all the interior toys with GM parts bin).

I regularly see several 9000s, plus a few 900 and 99's all in reasonable condition. Rust doesn't seem to affect them much at all and the engines are pretty bulletproof even when modified.

I guess it might be due to having one of the best known Saab specialists a couple of miles away though - there are at least half a dozen staff there with various Swedish rockets.

[Malachimon]

What about the Renault Aventine or the Smart Roadster? Both cool cars

[bodhi]

BMW 130i would be a more modern suggestion fro Munich, didn't one of the German mags run one for 100k and find barely anything had worn out at all?

[Triumph Man]

Malachimon said:

What about the Renault Aventine or the Smart Roadster? Both cool cars

Over-engineered though?

[scarble]

T0MMY said:

Stock answer to a PH thread but...MX5. I know they rust but how many mk1s do you see on the roads every day compared to any other g, h or j plate cars? I know that's partly due to how they're used compared to say a Sierra but I do think they're very well built and very under stressed.

Saw one on Tuesday. Broke down right in front of me.
How many Coras Bs are still going? Is that reliability or did they just sell loads?
Seem to be a lot of Mk6 Escorts about too and mine took a lot of punishment, clutch adjuster aside it held up well.
I'm not sure Lexii can really be called over engineered, they may be heavily built with big galvanised bolts that never rust and are easy to undo, but I think they're at least as prone to worn bushes and electrical failure as anything else and with all the extra electrics..

[Limpet]

ging84 said:

An over engineered car is one which solved problems which didn't exist, to the detriment of the car, eg making it too heavy, too expensive or too complicated.

Most Noughties designed Renaults, then.

[stephen300o]

Malachimon said:

What about the Renault Aventine or the Smart Roadster? Both cool cars

Over engineered, made to perform above and beyond the task intended.

[ging84]

stephen300o said:

Over engineered, made to perform above and beyond the task intended.

No it has to be detrimental to the design overall including time and costs. Eg making something using a 12p bolt where a 10p bolt will almost certainly do is not over engineering if it means you can save £10k worth of testing because it massively exceeds the design stress. Using the cheaper bolt and doing the testing in this case would actually be over engineering, unless the product was expected to ship well over half a million units.

[scarble]

Sorry but you're wrong, when anyone other than you uses the phrase "over engineered" they mean something built to perform above and beyond the task intended.

[Axionknight]

Older Volvos for sure, I have been in a few 740's and 240's et al that were spot on for their age, and I owned an 850 T5R (M reg, 1995) with 155K on the clock that felt as tight as a trampoline, the interior was a few wear and tear areas but in general it was excellent for its age.

[GravelBen]

T0MMY said:

Stock answer to a PH thread but...MX5. I know they rust but how many mk1s do you see on the roads every day compared to any other g, h or j plate cars? I know that's partly due to how they're used compared to say a Sierra but I do think they're very well built and very under stressed.

According to PH everything rusts, or maybe its just something about the UK climate/road treatments? MX5s don't have any significant reputation for rust in NZ.

I don't think they're a real contender for this thread, but they are built very tough for a small, light car and its impressive that the engine internals can handle double the original power when you bolt a turbo onto it.

[boroandy87]

Not quite so sure in terms of the actual car but as for the engine... Toyota Supra would be up there for me.

300bhp stock & able to withstand upwards of 600 without cracking open any seals.

[Harji]

Subaru Legacy (2004), felt rock solid after I sold it at 125,000 miles. My E92 Beemer on the other hand at 110,00 when sold had bit's of trim coming off a seized rear wiper plus other things.

Saab 900 (pre-GM) were pretty over engineered weren't they?

[Riknos]

mkiv Supra has got to be a contender, surely?

[Urban Sports]

BMW 3 series F30 without doubt.

[Escy]

deanogtv said:

I'd go with the VW Phaeton, if the grey cells are correct I seem to remember watching 5th Gear once and they went into great detail about how it shared a platform and components the Bentleys.

I wouldn't. I have a VW Touareg thats sub 100k miles and is of a similar vintage to the phaeton and it shares quite a few components. They are a shower of st. Mine has had a replacement engine at 50k miles, new abs pump, new prop bearing, various ecu's have been replaced, wiring faults, interior water leaks, soft touch buttons peeling and plenty more. These are common issues (engine isn't) you can expect on any touareg or phaeton.

VW is the master of marketing. Cheap components you don't see but a fancy boot hinge you do.

Edited by Escy on Thursday 24th July 13:25