Facinating find: Renault Clio Cup vs Audi R8 V10

[scarble]

jackmontandon said:

What gets me more is that the last section is a massive straight where the Hot hatch wouldn't have a chance. Which in turn means the hot hatch must have got round the corners a fair bit quicker than the lamborghini, and it was more of a case that the LP640 managed to "catch up" on the last straight

I've heard theories that tyres play a big part in 'ring times though, with tyre technology constantly evolving and the tyres used becoming more track focused and potentially less real world usable.
Not to take anything away from Renaultsport, they're clearly rather good at what they do.

[Centurion07]

martin elaman said:

I think these sorts of cars would be a hit with the rich as long as they were built well, looked really nice and had interiors made of nice materials. This is the over all point I was trying to make. martin

I'd have to disagree. If you're spending £100K+ on a "sporty" car, do you really want something that looks like a run of the mill family car?

There are enough car customisation companies out there that are more than capable of customising the interior of something like a Clio or Impreza to a similar standard of a Ferrari/Lambo etc, yet there are very, very few of those kinds of cars around.

I think in principle you're right; in reality I just don't see it working.

Case in point; I see more R8's on the road than I do RS6's yet the RS6 has the same engine (or very similar) and can carry 4/5 adults plus a load of luggage.

[J4CKO]

Isnt this mainly just down to the tyres, power vs weight the Lambo has it, braking wise I would hope that the Lambo is fairly well specified (Carbon whatsits wasnt it ?) and should cope, the suspension will be nowhere near as hard but a low C of G and you would hope it handles fairly well so I can only summise the bulk of it is down to tyres.

Stick them both on the same tyres then try again.

I went round Anglessey in a track prepped MX5 1.6 (120 bhp ish ?) , largely standard but with harder suspension, stripped out, full cage and slicks, then a 400 bhp Evo, the Evo felt like a Blancmange after the MX5 and had shredded its tyres, the straight line power seemed almost redundant after the addictive cornerning grip of the little Mazda. I know a guy with a track prepped Seven, it is manically fast but you can stand about ten minutes on the road in it before you cant hear, cant feel your arse and your eyes have gone blurry.

No car that is competetive on track is good on the road and vice versa, ok some may manage to do ok but there is always a compromise, I think when we are younger we think we want a competition car for the road and after a few years you realise that no, you really dont, not saying we should all go for a wafter but most sports cars of any description are more or less enough compromise for the road.

[Clivey]

Centurion07 said:

I'd have to disagree. If you're spending £100K+ on a "sporty" car, do you really want something that looks like a run of the mill family car?

There are enough car customisation companies out there that are more than capable of customising the interior of something like a Clio or Impreza to a similar standard of a Ferrari/Lambo etc, yet there are very, very few of those kinds of cars around.

I think in principle you're right; in reality I just don't see it working.

Case in point; I see more R8's on the road than I do RS6's yet the RS6 has the same engine (or very similar) and can carry 4/5 adults plus a load of luggage.

I see what you're saying but then, didn't Audi easily sell all of these at £40+k a pop?



I'm sure you can spec the new S1 to eyebrow-raising prices too and I personally know of a few Minis that were over £30k originally. OK, so there's a bit of a difference between £30-40k and £100k but there clearly is a market for expensive small cars.

[jamieduff1981]

Clivey said:

Centurion07 said:

I'd have to disagree. If you're spending £100K+ on a "sporty" car, do you really want something that looks like a run of the mill family car?

There are enough car customisation companies out there that are more than capable of customising the interior of something like a Clio or Impreza to a similar standard of a Ferrari/Lambo etc, yet there are very, very few of those kinds of cars around.

I think in principle you're right; in reality I just don't see it working.

Case in point; I see more R8's on the road than I do RS6's yet the RS6 has the same engine (or very similar) and can carry 4/5 adults plus a load of luggage.

I see what you're saying but then, didn't Audi easily sell all of these at £40+k a pop?



I'm sure you can spec the new S1 to eyebrow-raising prices too and I personally know of a few Minis that were over £30k originally. OK, so there's a bit of a difference between £30-40k and £100k but there clearly is a market for expensive small cars.

I think there's a world of difference personally. Centurion07 hit the nail on the head - nobody in the market for a supercar would ever want something that resembled a hatchback. The very notion of it sharing parts is abhorrent, let alone actually being a Clio or a horrible little Audi A1 with a big enough.

That sort of stuff is what would classically have been the blue-collar performance car like Cosworths etc used to be - what the average working class man aspired to. Those interested in a supercar simply wouldn't consider buying something that looked essentially the same as a mass-market car even if it was mechanically unrelated beneath the skin. They may buy something a bit more normal for daily use, but the whole reason they want a supercar for weekends is to have something special.

[braddo]

martin elaman said:

Anyone read the new evo this month where they compare the Renault racing Clio Cup to the Audi R8 v10? The Renault really dominates it. I did and it's very interesting. Not unlike a test in evo a few years back where they pitting an older Impreza WRC car against the latest crop of mid-engine wonder-cars only to see them lose to the WRC car easily.

I really don't think enough is said about the inherent supercar crushing ability of very well modded hatches or similar small front engine sedans. There is a myth perpetuated by the magazines and on-line that a mid-engine car is so much better, but really they can often be worse. I think there is a need to romance the mid-rear engine cars because they are usually very pretty and sleek and low and unique to look at. I'd prefer a small q-car Clio Cup any day of the decade. martin

As the second post in the thread says, it's a race car vs a road car, so hardly surprising. But you seem blind to the several posts talking about comparing apples and oranges.

My recollection is that the WRC Imprezza you refer to had a cost of £300k and is a long, long way from being a useable road car.

What does a new Clio Cup car cost? £50k? You could go way faster in a road registered Radical for that money - so what?

[Clivey]

jamieduff1981 said:

I think there's a world of difference personally. Centurion07 hit the nail on the head - nobody in the market for a supercar would ever want something that resembled a hatchback. The very notion of it sharing parts is abhorrent, let alone actually being a Clio or a horrible little Audi A1 with a big enough.

Ssshh. Don't tell them but owners of Lamborghini Murcielagos are driving around with electric mirror switches from Vauxhall Corsas and original Vanquish owners have Mondeo interior door handles.

jamieduff1981 said:

That sort of stuff is what would classically have been the blue-collar performance car like Cosworths etc used to be - what the average working class man aspired to. Those interested in a supercar simply wouldn't consider buying something that looked essentially the same as a mass-market car even if it was mechanically unrelated beneath the skin. They may buy something a bit more normal for daily use, but the whole reason they want a supercar for weekends is to have something special.

I appreciate your points but IMO, the A1 Quattro Sport and it's ilk are a bit different from the Escort Cosworth (to me, the Impreza, Evo etc. are that car's spiritual successors). I'm just making the point that some are willing to spend what seems like massive amounts of money on performance versions of regular cars (you can spec. a new M3 saloon to nearly £80k, for example)...not that they're an alternative to a 458 Speciale.

[martin elaman]

I'm not obviously going to argue this with folks who haven't built or driven such things; for that we should have the rally builders come on here and explain, Dan Trent over to you on that... But I will leave you with Harris's own Porsche which is built by a leading rally expert - its all doable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2HjaHS51hk of course it does not pay to showcase cars like this when your a journalist who must extol the virtues of the new all day- so obviously while Harris said it was the best he'd driven he never dared compare it to anything on camera. Smart business man that Harris. If Porsche were to come out with such a hand-made limited addition special as this today "collectors" would gobble them up.