Why are US crate engines so cheaap compared to European ones

Why are US crate engines so cheaap compared to European ones

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Discussion

wca

Original Poster:

307 posts

165 months

Friday 25th July 2014
quotequote all
I have just built this with a 2.8 BMW unit and it is lovely.



A few beers later I was wondering what it would be like with 500+ BHP. The LS3 is the obvious engine for power per £ but I thought I would check out BMW and Merc. BMW have the sump at the wrong end for steering clearance although some people have made it possible but forget the technical aspects. Merc want close to £50K for there 6.3 compared to £4-8K depending on output for the GM engines.

What gives?

roverspeed

700 posts

195 months

Friday 25th July 2014
quotequote all
How about a uzfe1 from a Lexus?

Amg engines are hand built by a one bloke per engine, lsx are not

belleair302

6,835 posts

206 months

Friday 25th July 2014
quotequote all
Labour costs, manufacturing costs and lots of demand for a simple GM small block V8. Americans dont expect to pay much for US manufactured goods and with low sales taxes why should we in the UK???

InitialDave

11,856 posts

118 months

Friday 25th July 2014
quotequote all
Yeah, I was discussing this with a guy at work today, actually. It looks like a crate LS V8 seems to be somewhere in the region of £10 per bhp...

AngryPartsBloke

1,436 posts

150 months

Friday 25th July 2014
quotequote all
roverspeed said:
How about a uzfe1 from a Lexus?

Amg engines are hand built by a one bloke per engine, lsx are not
LS engines are hand built, they are also less stressed and more popular in the specialist car market. You see them in all sorts of vehicles.

An engine Complicated for the sake of being complicated does not make a good starting point for a a low volume or one off build.

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Friday 25th July 2014
quotequote all
AngryPartsBloke said:
roverspeed said:
How about a uzfe1 from a Lexus?

Amg engines are hand built by a one bloke per engine, lsx are not
LS engines are hand built, they are also less stressed and more popular in the specialist car market. You see them in all sorts of vehicles.
You can even build your own: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6_mtOM1Llssmile

wca

Original Poster:

307 posts

165 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
So I am going for an LS in my new project I guess.

Anyone got and LS3 kicking around they want to sell?

Any recommendations other than what pops up first on Google for someone near Southampton?

V88Dicky

7,302 posts

182 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
This is the place you need. The LS3 available, including VAT, for £5220.

http://www.partsworldperformance.com/chevrolet-ls3...


Mind you, the mighty ZZ572 is available for a little over 10k.
(572 ci = 9.4L) yikes



Don't think it'll fit though biggrin





HiAsAKite

2,345 posts

246 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
wca said:
I have just built this with a 2.8 BMW unit and it is lovely.



A few beers later I was wondering what it would be like with 500+ BHP. The LS3 is the obvious engine for power per £ but I thought I would check out BMW and Merc. BMW have the sump at the wrong end for steering clearance although some people have made it possible but forget the technical aspects. Merc want close to £50K for there 6.3 compared to £4-8K depending on output for the GM engines.

What gives?
Nothing to say about he engine, but that is beautiful...

ferrariF50lover

1,834 posts

225 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
V88Dicky said:
This is the place you need. The LS3 available, including VAT, for £5220.

http://www.partsworldperformance.com/chevrolet-ls3...


Mind you, the mighty ZZ572 is available for a little over 10k.
(572 ci = 9.4L) yikes



Don't think it'll fit though biggrin




That looks like a dreadful engine. How on earth do they get so little power from such an enormous motor?

Simon.

mackie1

8,153 posts

232 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
It's an old school 2 valve big block. It doesn't rev that high but makes very decent torque for its size.

Codswallop

5,250 posts

193 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
mackie1 said:
It's an old school 2 valve big block. It doesn't rev that high but makes very decent torque for its size.
Plus it will run forever with minimal fuss. Or if you're that way inclined, it can easily and relatively cheaply be pused to a reliable 1000bhp with a bit of FI.

VWAUDI

293 posts

156 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
Merc want 50k?!?!

Better off buying a C63 and breaking it I thought maybe 10 or even 15k but 50k is absolutely insane for the engine alone.

Must it be a V8? S54 with FI or even a 2JZ could work

Edited by VWAUDI on Saturday 26th July 19:06

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
ferrariF50lover said:
V88Dicky said:
This is the place you need. The LS3 available, including VAT, for £5220.

http://www.partsworldperformance.com/chevrolet-ls3...


Mind you, the mighty ZZ572 is available for a little over 10k.
(572 ci = 9.4L) yikes



Don't think it'll fit though biggrin




That looks like a dreadful engine. How on earth do they get so little power from such an enormous motor?

Simon.
That is a starting point, not the end game.

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
ferrariF50lover said:
That looks like a dreadful engine. How on earth do they get so little power from such an enormous motor?

Simon.
Because its doing that with ease, it'll take a huge amount of abuse and will last forever.

Spend a few more £k and it will make much, much more.

Americans are the experts at getting lots of power for minimum effort.

ETA: http://www.smedingperformance.com/chevy/572+Blown+...
http://precisionraceengines.com/chevy-turn-key-rac...

There are guys all over America sticking this sort of thing in to cars and beating them down the drag strip every weekend, change the oil, check valve clearances and its good to go...

Edited by Crafty_ on Saturday 26th July 19:39

jimmyjimjim

7,329 posts

237 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
This might be better:

https://chevroletperformanceparts.com/catalog/chev...

LSX454R. 7.7L, 770 BHP.

Or a ZZ502 for $8k; 502 BHP.

Lots of choices around the 500-600 BHP mark.

jamiebae

6,245 posts

210 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
A good few years ago a team at Le Mans ran a car with a 'Caterpillar' branded Diesel engine, which was in fact a VW V10 TDI based lump. VW wanted so much for a new engine they just bought a whole Touareg and sold the rest as parts!

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
So, looks like a combination of,

German "premiumness"
Economies of Scale
Not wanting their engines turning up in restyled Z3's (I like it, not a criticism, but may be a factor)
Slightly more complex and better assembled

Still doesn't explain it being 8 or so times more expensive, just buy a yank V8, or spend the same and get 2000 bhp.

mug81

256 posts

143 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
I guess you're looking for new? No idea about these chaps but the price is a little more realistic

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MERCEDES-63-AMG-ENGINE-G...

jamiebae

6,245 posts

210 months

Saturday 26th July 2014
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
So, looks like a combination of,

German "premiumness"
Economies of Scale
Not wanting their engines turning up in restyled Z3's (I like it, not a criticism, but may be a factor)
Slightly more complex and better assembled

Still doesn't explain it being 8 or so times more expensive, just buy a yank V8, or spend the same and get 2000 bhp.
Production volumes and demand are also important. A boat anchor pushrod V8 from a truck sells in massively higher volumes than the equivalent engine in a sports car or exec barge.

A Euro engine is way more sophisticated than an LS V8 too, as we have way tighter emissions regs, and a market where fuel economy and CO2 figures are what sells cars.