Why are US crate engines so cheaap compared to European ones
Discussion
Lowtimer said:
Power per litre of displaced capacity is a metric of no fundamental value at all.
Power per pound of engine weight, or per cubic foot of total exterior engine volume, or per litre of fuel burned: these are metrics which are of genuine engineering value. And the LSx is very good at those.
Power per pound of engine weight, or per cubic foot of total exterior engine volume, or per litre of fuel burned: these are metrics which are of genuine engineering value. And the LSx is very good at those.
I've never understood the obsession with power per unit swept capacity. It's one of those things like absolute flywheel torque that, whilst it might give you a rough indication of how an engine will compare to its competition, doesn't actually tell you anything concrete. I think the only real technical disadvantage of the Corvette setup is that you can't easily change the anti-roll stiffness generated through the spring without changing the spring rates (or moving the mounting hard-points, which obviously isn't viable aftermarket). Not a problem for 90% of owners who will never fiddle with their suspension; I guess they've tuned it so that most of the anti-roll comes from a separate bar (which I'd never noticed they had before) to minimise that lack of tuneability.
ETA: That and cost, of course. Steel coil springs are rather cheaper than CF leaf springs.
ETA: That and cost, of course. Steel coil springs are rather cheaper than CF leaf springs.
Edited by kambites on Monday 28th July 09:27
kambites said:
I think the only real technical disadvantage of the Corvette setup is that you can't easily change the anti-roll stiffness generated through the spring without changing the spring rates (or moving the mounting hard-points, which obviously isn't viable aftermarket). Not a problem for 90% of owners who will never fiddle with their suspension; I guess they've tuned it so that most of the anti-roll comes from a separate bar to minimise that lack of tuneability.
Yes, it is a very neat set up. As far as I can gather the anti roll function has a fiarly considerable contribution from the spring so to tune the suspension you only have the option of fitting different anti roll bars which gives limited tuning options. I wonder how they tune the (very sucessful) Le Mans cars? If it's stiffer transverse springs are they available aftermarket? Or would they just make it feel like the car has solid suspension?Back to the OP, the LS does appear to be a bargain. The reasons suggested in this thread do not account for a factor of 8 in the price difference, maybe apart from DA suggesting the lack of brand value.
TA14 said:
Back to the OP, the LS does appear to be a bargain. The reasons suggested in this thread do not account for a factor of 8 in the price difference, maybe apart from DA suggesting the lack of brand value.
I don't think people realise just how many of these engines GM cranks out.
Lowtimer said:
Indeed. The small-block Chevy, in its various forms over the years, is the world's most-produced internal combustion engine, ever.
1955-1992 was more or less the same engine.
1993-1996 was the LT1, heavily revised version of the original.
1996- LSx..
The most powerful ICEs in the world are pushrod engines, nowt wrong with those!
TA14 said:
Yes, it is a very neat set up. As far as I can gather the anti roll function has a fiarly considerable contribution from the spring so to tune the suspension you only have the option of fitting different anti roll bars which gives limited tuning options. I wonder how they tune the (very sucessful) Le Mans cars? If it's stiffer transverse springs are they available aftermarket? Or would they just make it feel like the car has solid suspension?
Back to the OP, the LS does appear to be a bargain. The reasons suggested in this thread do not account for a factor of 8 in the price difference, maybe apart from DA suggesting the lack of brand value.
The race cars use coil overs Back to the OP, the LS does appear to be a bargain. The reasons suggested in this thread do not account for a factor of 8 in the price difference, maybe apart from DA suggesting the lack of brand value.
To change a spring rate on a Vette you would have to lift the car and get underneath it to change the spring. Using coil overs the jobs is much simpler and can be done with the car on its jacks in the traditional manner. Having put coil overs on one of mine, bigger sway bars front and rear are a must to make up for the missing anti roll effect of the spring.
Gixer said:
The race cars use coil overs
To change a spring rate on a Vette you would have to lift the car and get underneath it to change the spring. Using coil overs the jobs is much simpler and can be done with the car on its jacks in the traditional manner. Having put coil overs on one of mine, bigger sway bars front and rear are a must to make up for the missing anti roll effect of the spring.
Ah. Can that modification be done for a cost similar to tuning say a TVR?To change a spring rate on a Vette you would have to lift the car and get underneath it to change the spring. Using coil overs the jobs is much simpler and can be done with the car on its jacks in the traditional manner. Having put coil overs on one of mine, bigger sway bars front and rear are a must to make up for the missing anti roll effect of the spring.
Yeah. Pretty easy. In my case on my 90 ZR1 I purchased 4 new adjustable Bilstien shocks (as per the stock fit already on the car), had them shipped direct to Rippie motors ports in the US. He re valves them to his spec, groves them for a snap ring to take the coil spring and ships them back. Fitting is pretty straight forwards, had to move the front sway bar forward slightly, nothing major. Some coil overs are a straight bolt on with no mods at all but use very narrow springs that tend to ride hard. Not done the C6 but imagine it would be just as simple. In many ways the rear of the C6 is less complicated than that of my C4. For example the C4 uses 2 short anti squat bars instead of one long one
^ & ^^. Not completely hand made as many parts are torqued up by machines etc but I agree that there's major human input into each and every engine. I'd regard 'fully handmade' as being done by a person with a ring gapper and micrometers etc. With the Ls7/9 many parts arrive for assembly having been pre assembled elsewhere in the factory. I'm not knocking the engine though, they're both HOT. ;-)
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