Diesel users to pay £20 to enter London

[kambites]

POORCARDEALER said:

Get the technology into a 15K car and it starts making sense.

It's coming to a £30k car next year so it's getting there.

I suspect the huge majority of people doing regular long drives to London are doing it in company cars, in which case rental and BIK rates are more important than purchase price. It'll be interesting to see how the Model-III compares to things like the 320d in that respect when it's released.

It's going to be years before you can buy a £15k electric car with a 300 mile range but how many people who buy £15k cars regularly do 300 mile trips?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 29th July 11:13

[Lowtimer]

POORCARDEALER said:

What is worrying, will we be looking back on diesels in 20 years time in the same way we look at asbestos etc today....

Er. We've only been using diesels in just about every bus and truck in Europe for the last 100 years, and trains for the last 60. You talk as if if they were invented the day before yesterday and it's all some bold new experiment.

[FiF]

POORCARDEALER said:

Get the technology into a 15K car and it starts making sense.

Exactly the same point as I was trying to make earlier.

[lufbramatt]

So this is a new "ultra low emissions zone" based on the boundaries of the existing congestion charge zone? And not the current "low emissions zone" for commercial vehicles which is basically inside the M25?

[Lowtimer]

It is the boundaries of the central congestion charging zone.
It's all in here:
http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/ULEZ%...

[Fastdruid]

Pretty much yes. Although I can see large VED rises on the cards for Diesels as well
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-285402...

[TroubledSoul]

CampDavid said:

Personally I'd like to see the pedestrianization of large sections of the City with lots of new, safe, cycle ways and a blanket 20 limit.

I'd also like to see black cabs being replaced my all electric within 6 years and buses to go the same way.

I'd also like an app on my phone that showed me where all the buses are, how full they are and plotted my routes to use them better.

While I'm on my soap box, lets modernise the underground and get it working for London, not the unions and get some AC in there and clean it up.

Driving in London is miserable, getting around on public transport need not be.

That all sounds rather like a manifesto....

[POORCARDEALER]

Lowtimer said:

POORCARDEALER said:

What is worrying, will we be looking back on diesels in 20 years time in the same way we look at asbestos etc today....

Er. We've only been using diesels in just about every bus and truck in Europe for the last 100 years, and trains for the last 60. You talk as if if they were invented the day before yesterday and it's all some bold new experiment.

And how long did it take to realise that asbestos was killing thousands of people a year?.....you cannot say with any certainty that diesels fumes are not killing people, just as I cant say they are.

[Lowtimer]

If they are, then they have been doing so for a century so I doubt the general public will give a toss. During that period UK life expectancy at birth has risen from around 47/50 (male / female) to around 77/81 now, so if it is killing people in their droves it's going a funny way about it.

Edited by Lowtimer on Tuesday 29th July 11:34

[TroubledSoul]

furtive said:

Solution: Pedestrianise the whole of central London and improve public transport

How could you improve public transport if there are no longer any roads for it to use?

[Lowtimer]

Teleportation, obviously.
And, to be fair, underground trains.

[Joffery666]

Good. The less tractors we have on our roads, the better.

[TroubledSoul]

Lowtimer said:

Teleportation, obviously.
And, to be fair, underground trains.

Well, obviously, but what about the Teleportation Tax?

The underground, fair enough, but they can barely cope as it is without someone deciding to take all of the buses out of the equation!

[stuttgartmetal]

Cabs will be all electric by 2020

[McWigglebum4th]

POORCARDEALER said:

kambites said:

POORCARDEALER said:

Electric only, I can see thats the aim

I don't think it would be a bad thing to push for all cars which routinely enter the centre of big cities to be electric. It's the one situation where "zero emission" really means something sensible.

I think once the battery technology is up to spec then maybe, but its nowhere near at the minute

I fully agree

Current electric cars have not anywhere enough range for use in the city

As very very few people live within 30 miles of the center of london

[heebeegeetee]

Fastdruid said:

More what are you on about? What relevance is lead to current vehicles?

Lead started being phased out 40 years ago in the US, was banned totally in 1996 and was banned totally in the EU in 2000 (UK in 1999) that's 15 years ago that it was banned (at which point the amount of leaded sales was something like 0.6%).

Still using benzene though, which unlike diesel has always known to be highly carcinogenic. We release it to atmosphere and breathe it in every time we fuel our cars and t is a cause of leukaemia.

Just curious as to why we wouldn't compare that to asbestos.

[TheInternet]

McWigglebum4th said:

very very few people live within 30 miles of the center of london

Not entirely sure if serious.

[ORD]

stuttgartmetal said:

Cabs will be all electric by 2020

Not a chance in hell of that.

[Fastdruid]

heebeegeetee said:

Fastdruid said:

More what are you on about? What relevance is lead to current vehicles?

Lead started being phased out 40 years ago in the US, was banned totally in 1996 and was banned totally in the EU in 2000 (UK in 1999) that's 15 years ago that it was banned (at which point the amount of leaded sales was something like 0.6%).

Still using benzene though, which unlike diesel has always known to be highly carcinogenic. We release it to atmosphere and breathe it in every time we fuel our cars and t is a cause of leukaemia.

Just curious as to why we wouldn't compare that to asbestos.

I don't disagree that benzene is bad but taking benzene - http://www.ukpia.com/files/pdf/ukpia-benzene-in-pe...
a) Exposure to very high concentrations has been linked to an increased risk of developing acute myeloid leukaemia. - Note not it causes (unlike asbestos) but there is an increase in risk.
b) All pumps are fitted with little boxes that suck the fumes in. Along with carbon canisters in the cars to prevent fumes. Outside of filling my lawn mower I can't remember the last time I smelt petrol.
c) Since 2000 the amount of Benzene in petrol has been limited to 1%

In the same time frame that Benzene has been decreasing Nitrous oxides have been increasing due to all the Diesels encouraged by low VED and high fuel costs and while there is an increased risk of leukaemia with benzine with oxides of nitrogen there there is a very real effect of:

• adverse respiratory effects including airway inflammation in healthy people and increased respiratory symptoms in people with asthma.
• emphysema and bronchitis, and can aggravate existing heart disease, leading to increased hospital admissions and premature death.
• rapid, burning spasms; swelling of throat; reduced oxygen intake; a larger buildup of fluids in lungs and/or death

Edited by Fastdruid on Tuesday 29th July 12:23

[Robert Elise]

TheInternet said:

McWigglebum4th said:

very very few people live within 30 miles of the center of london

Not entirely sure if serious.

I would guess 23% of UK
9m live well inside M25. 30miles gets you Woking, Wycombe and v. close to Chelmsford