Diesel users to pay £20 to enter London

Diesel users to pay £20 to enter London

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Discussion

untakenname

Original Poster:

4,951 posts

191 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Just heard about this on the radio http://www.lbc.co.uk/diesel-cars-could-have-to-pay...

I'm in two minds about this, on one hand it's getting out of hand the amount of pollution caused by diesel vehicles in London especially so in the heat were having atm, each day in rush hour as soon as I get to the top of Crystal Palace and then head towards London you can taste the pollution in the air (as well as see it).

On the other hand they want to apply the charge to pre 2006 petrols as well and I've got a 2005 RX8, I don't commute in but if I had to £20 per day for the privilege just for passing through on weekends then the charge would see me get a taxi in instead defeating the point of lowering the particulate emissions.

Wondering if it will apply to Taxi's and Busses and if it will just be the existing congestion charge zone or the LEZ M25 one.

miniman

24,824 posts

261 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
With a bit of luck Uber and Hailo will have finished off the black cab by then.

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
London's air quality is pretty horrible.

Whether this is the right way to go about improving it, I don't know, but they probably have to do something.

PGNCerbera

2,926 posts

165 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
I'm amazed black cabs don't get more sanctions. They are a polluting disgrace.

Public transport is actually very good in London so not concerned by this increase.


strummerville

1,014 posts

126 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
It amuses me that we are all incentivised financially to drive supposed lower CO2 emitting, but more carcinogenic diesels. As one wag on here said a while ago:
"Diesel is the new asbestos. We know it's bad for your health, but choose to ignore it".

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
strummerville said:
It amuses me that we are all incentivised financially to drive supposed lower CO2 emitting, but more carcinogenic diesels. As one wag on here said a while ago:
"Diesel is the new asbestos. We know it's bad for your health, but choose to ignore it".
yes Although we've gone less far than much of Europe with pushing diesels. At least we have the same tax rate on both fuels.

POORCARDEALER

8,523 posts

240 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all

Electric only, I can see thats the aim

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
POORCARDEALER said:
Electric only, I can see thats the aim
I don't think it would be a bad thing to push for all cars which routinely enter the centre of big cities to be electric. It's the one situation where "zero emission" really means something sensible.

POORCARDEALER

8,523 posts

240 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Electric only, I can see thats the aim
I don't think it would be a bad thing to push for all cars which routinely enter the centre of big cities to be electric. It's the one situation where "zero emission" really means something sensible.
I think once the battery technology is up to spec then maybe, but its nowhere near at the minute

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
POORCARDEALER said:
I think once the battery technology is up to spec then maybe, but its nowhere near at the minute
Indeed, but I see no evidence that petrol cars are going to be pushed out of cities completely in the next few years.

POORCARDEALER

8,523 posts

240 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
POORCARDEALER said:
I think once the battery technology is up to spec then maybe, but its nowhere near at the minute
Indeed, but I see no evidence that petrol cars are going to be pushed out of cities completely in the next few years.
Theres no evidence that an electric car will take me from yorkshire to london in the next few years on a single charge, and thats the problem.

Interesting the last 20 years has been pro diesel and that may well start to reverse

heebeegeetee

28,590 posts

247 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
kambites said:
yes Although we've gone less far than much of Europe with pushing diesels. At least we have the same tax rate on both fuels.
And Europe has cleaner air, apparently.


strummerville said:
It amuses me that we are all incentivised financially to drive supposed lower CO2 emitting, but more carcinogenic diesels. As one wag on here said a while ago:
"Diesel is the new asbestos. We know it's bad for your health, but choose to ignore it".
This is the thinking that I just can not understand. After 100 years of use, it has been decided that diesel is carcinogenic based on conditions in people who have worked underground with diesel engines for 30 years.

Meantime highly carcinogenic substances have been added to petrol to get the fuel to work well in internal combustion engines. Before the carcinogenic substances were added (or as well as, possibly) tetra-ethyl lead was added, another substance known to be highly injurious to human health.

If you were going to label a fuel as carcinogenic, why would you not pick the fuel known to be carcinogenic right from the moment it was used? Why would you pick the fuel that has taken 100 years to be decided whether or not the fuel is carcinogenic?

If you were going to use asbestos as an analogy, why would you not pick the fuel that has always been known to be injurious over human health, over the fuel that has had 100 years debate on the subject?

LayZ

1,619 posts

241 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
POORCARDEALER said:
Theres no evidence that an electric car will take me from yorkshire to london in the next few years on a single charge, and thats the problem.

Interesting the last 20 years has been pro diesel and that may well start to reverse
Except for a Tesla Model S that can do London to Yorkshire today no problem?

jonah35

3,940 posts

156 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
It will come and then it will be say a £5 charge to enter leeds etc.

People will somehow pay it.

They have no other option really apart from banning them all together.


Rostfritt

3,098 posts

150 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
POORCARDEALER said:
Theres no evidence that an electric car will take me from yorkshire to london in the next few years on a single charge, and thats the problem.

Interesting the last 20 years has been pro diesel and that may well start to reverse
I think that the fact people are now used to the range of a diesel is not going to work in electric cars' favour. Many have gone from a petrol that could do about 300 miles out of a tank, to a diesel that can do about 600 (ballpark figures, I can do 220 miles in my petrol car but could do over 800 in my old diesel) so moving to an electric with a range of about 200 is a massive drop.

Back on topic though, the pollution in London is pretty awful and they are running out of ways of fixing it. I am guessing all the buses have the highest level particulate filter and all that? Maybe they will go after 2 stroke scooters next, there are plenty of electric models about.

POORCARDEALER

8,523 posts

240 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
LayZ said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Theres no evidence that an electric car will take me from yorkshire to london in the next few years on a single charge, and thats the problem.

Interesting the last 20 years has been pro diesel and that may well start to reverse
Except for a Tesla Model S that can do London to Yorkshire today no problem?
How much?

kambites

67,460 posts

220 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
POORCARDEALER said:
Theres no evidence that an electric car will take me from yorkshire to london in the next few years on a single charge, and thats the problem.
Firstly a Tesla already can. It's a luxury car so costs luxury car money, but they claim to be releasing a ~£30k 3-series competitor with similar range in the next few years.

Secondly, how many people routinely drive from Yorkshire to the centre of London and how much would it hurt the economy for them to not do so?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 29th July 08:52

V88Dicky

7,302 posts

182 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Interestingly, the last emissions test on my (pre 2006) 3.0 petrol saw the hydrocarbon level (soot) at 0 ppm.

Muppets.

ewenm

28,506 posts

244 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
POORCARDEALER said:
LayZ said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Theres no evidence that an electric car will take me from yorkshire to london in the next few years on a single charge, and thats the problem.

Interesting the last 20 years has been pro diesel and that may well start to reverse
Except for a Tesla Model S that can do London to Yorkshire today no problem?
How much?
Is anyone saying the electric cars NOW are suitable for EVERY journey for EVERYONE? The only people who appear to make that argument are those saying why an electric car isn't suitable for them. Easy answer - don't buy one. I won't be as my usage profile doesn't match the advantages of current electric cars. I accept that this will probably mean my running costs will increase as governments get more draconian about emissions etc. However, reducing emissions/particulates in highly-populated urban areas is a sensible thing to do in my opinion (regardless of the CO2).

morebeanz

3,283 posts

235 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Rostfritt said:
I am guessing all the buses have the highest level particulate filter and all that? Maybe they will go after 2 stroke scooters next, there are plenty of electric models about.
I doubt it, they (used to) take the cats off them due to the effect on fuel consumption...