Autocar M3 vs D3
Discussion
Watched this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoRAeL8qgSM
Quite shocked at the results. I don't want to take any credit away from the D3, it appears to be one heck of a car ... BUT it can't seriously be quicker and stop quicker than the M3??
I'd have thought it would have been no contest considering it is turbo v turbo and the M3 has quite a bit of a power and weight advantage. The new M3 isn't exactly lacking torque either.
What does everyone else think?
Neil
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoRAeL8qgSM
Quite shocked at the results. I don't want to take any credit away from the D3, it appears to be one heck of a car ... BUT it can't seriously be quicker and stop quicker than the M3??
I'd have thought it would have been no contest considering it is turbo v turbo and the M3 has quite a bit of a power and weight advantage. The new M3 isn't exactly lacking torque either.
What does everyone else think?
Neil
Saw this yesterday and was pretty surprised. Autocar tend to be pretty objective in their tests, and in almost every objective measure, the D3 was almost equal to the M3.
I think one would have to drive both if considering which one to buy. The D3 looks like a better all round car (comfort, economy and noise insulation are better), but things like the steering would be subjective. One person could prefer the D3 and another the M3.
Also, if you would be happy with the noise of the D3 (which wasn't actually awful from inside the cabin, where you'd be sat when driving) then it may be the one to go for.
It was mentioned that the extra speed of the M3 only really showed when speeds got quite high. Speeds that would probably go some way to losing you your driving licence if you were to do them on the public highway.
I think Chris Harris did a feature on the D3 at some point (or it may have been the B3) but the thing that always comes across is that the Alpinas are much easier to drive quickly. Something which would probably be better for most people, going by that video and the amounts of steering input required to prevent a BMW-Hedge interface...
I think one would have to drive both if considering which one to buy. The D3 looks like a better all round car (comfort, economy and noise insulation are better), but things like the steering would be subjective. One person could prefer the D3 and another the M3.
Also, if you would be happy with the noise of the D3 (which wasn't actually awful from inside the cabin, where you'd be sat when driving) then it may be the one to go for.
It was mentioned that the extra speed of the M3 only really showed when speeds got quite high. Speeds that would probably go some way to losing you your driving licence if you were to do them on the public highway.
I think Chris Harris did a feature on the D3 at some point (or it may have been the B3) but the thing that always comes across is that the Alpinas are much easier to drive quickly. Something which would probably be better for most people, going by that video and the amounts of steering input required to prevent a BMW-Hedge interface...
I don't think it was the most scientific review I ever saw but I don't suppose there's much in it either way. All the M3 press cars have had the carbon brake option so I would have hoped it stop quicker than the steel braked D3 for the £7k outlay. I'd take the Alpina but the B3 instead.
The M3 should wipe the floor with the Alpina.
The M3 was poorly launched in economy mode with the gearbox set to D. The D3 also had a near empty tank to keep the weight down.
If you want to try and make a car look good or bad, I guess you easily can.
The M3 was poorly launched in economy mode with the gearbox set to D. The D3 also had a near empty tank to keep the weight down.
If you want to try and make a car look good or bad, I guess you easily can.
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 29th July 10:15
unpc said:
Yes I realise that but I would hope they don't offer less retardation than the steel ones. Bit pointless on the road otherwise.
Brakes are only around 30% of the picture when it comes to how quick you can stop. Tyres in every sense make up a significant proportion of the rest combined with weight and suspension.zeppelin101 said:
Brakes are only around 30% of the picture when it comes to how quick you can stop. Tyres in every sense make up a significant proportion of the rest combined with weight and suspension.
Well they are running similar size tyres of the same make, weights are similar and so is the suspension. They're near as dammit the same car and yet the stopping distance on the M3 seems to be greater. The only major variable involved are the disc/pad materials. I'd expect the ceramics to be at least on par. unpc said:
Well they are running similar size tyres of the same make, weights are similar and so is the suspension. They're near as dammit the same car and yet the stopping distance on the M3 seems to be greater. The only major variable involved are the disc/pad materials. I'd expect the ceramics to be at least on par.
The suspension isn't the same, the Alpina is also on wider tyres.Driver101 said:
The M3 should wipe the floor with the Alpina.
The M3 was poorly launched in economy mode with the gearbox set to D. The D3 also had a near empty tank to keep the weight down.
If you want to try and make a car look good or bad, I guess you easily can.
Can you imagine having to defend your M3 by saying 'it was in the wrong mode' or 'I have more fuel than you', seems pretty gay. The M3 was poorly launched in economy mode with the gearbox set to D. The D3 also had a near empty tank to keep the weight down.
If you want to try and make a car look good or bad, I guess you easily can.
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 29th July 10:15
Dave Hedgehog said:
wow 4 meters, those are some wide tyres 
the adjectives used for the D3 are everything i detest about cars
i dont care how fast a car is if it has no involvement and will put you to sleep like the alpina will
In all fairness, you could easily drop 4-5m by braking a tenth of a second later than the other car from 100mph.the adjectives used for the D3 are everything i detest about cars
i dont care how fast a car is if it has no involvement and will put you to sleep like the alpina will
I'm not saying that the difference in tyres and suspension make 4m, but they will make some difference. The point I was trying to make is that the brakes themselves don't rate all that highly in the end result.
mike-r said:
Driver101 said:
The M3 should wipe the floor with the Alpina.
The M3 was poorly launched in economy mode with the gearbox set to D. The D3 also had a near empty tank to keep the weight down.
If you want to try and make a car look good or bad, I guess you easily can.
Can you imagine having to defend your M3 by saying 'it was in the wrong mode' or 'I have more fuel than you', seems pretty gay. The M3 was poorly launched in economy mode with the gearbox set to D. The D3 also had a near empty tank to keep the weight down.
If you want to try and make a car look good or bad, I guess you easily can.
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 29th July 10:15
However, that Alpina appeals to me an awful lot - If I were BMW's M division, I'd be asking why on earth Alpina's diesel is capable of being quicker round a handling circuit and only marginally faster on a 0-100 time too.
As said above, no M car should have to use an excuse to justify losing to a diesel. It should've been fairly academic.
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