RE: Jag XE: 75 per cent aluminium and over 75mpg

[pti]

ORD said:

What is the thinking behind releasing these with only 4 cyl engines on offer? Nobody who would buy the 6 cyl will buy the 4 cyl out of impatience - they will just go to another manufacturer. By the time the 6 cyl version becomes available, a lot of people will have tried the XE but gone elsewhere because they don't want to wait for one with a proper engine.

A lot of people? I doubt it. Jaguar need volume with this car and targeting the fleet market is the way to do it - clearly.

They need to sell more cars so they can continue to produce the ones that appeal to people like us. Simple.

How so many people on this site continue to miss this fundamental point is beyond me.

[ORD]

pti said:

ORD said:

What is the thinking behind releasing these with only 4 cyl engines on offer? Nobody who would buy the 6 cyl will buy the 4 cyl out of impatience - they will just go to another manufacturer. By the time the 6 cyl version becomes available, a lot of people will have tried the XE but gone elsewhere because they don't want to wait for one with a proper engine.

A lot of people? I doubt it. Jaguar need volume with this car and targeting the fleet market is the way to do it - clearly.

They need to sell more cars so they can continue to produce the ones that appeal to people like us. Simple.

How so many people on this site continue to miss this fundamental point is beyond me.

I haven't missed anything, you patronising nobber.

Of course Jaguar has to sell lots of the boggo 4-cycls to arspirational middle-management types on company car policies. The point is that this should not, unless I am missing something, mean that it has to delay the launch of the models that PHers might want to get their hands on. Low volume, sure, but why not try to snap up high-margin sales? After the excitement over the launch has died down, it will be much harder to get people to notice that there are also versions with decent engines.

[Monty Python]

I'm hoping they come up with a decent 6-pot diesel to take on the 335d - it would be nice to have some more choice.

[pti]

ORD said:

pti said:

ORD said:

What is the thinking behind releasing these with only 4 cyl engines on offer? Nobody who would buy the 6 cyl will buy the 4 cyl out of impatience - they will just go to another manufacturer. By the time the 6 cyl version becomes available, a lot of people will have tried the XE but gone elsewhere because they don't want to wait for one with a proper engine.

A lot of people? I doubt it. Jaguar need volume with this car and targeting the fleet market is the way to do it - clearly.

They need to sell more cars so they can continue to produce the ones that appeal to people like us. Simple.

How so many people on this site continue to miss this fundamental point is beyond me.

I haven't missed anything, you patronising nobber.

Of course Jaguar has to sell lots of the boggo 4-cycls to arspirational middle-management types on company car policies. The point is that this should not, unless I am missing something, mean that it has to delay the launch of the models that PHers might want to get their hands on. Low volume, sure, but why not try to snap up high-margin sales? After the excitement over the launch has died down, it will be much harder to get people to notice that there are also versions with decent engines.

Sorry, bad morning

I would imagine someone, somewhere has done the sums and the business case is stronger to focus on the rep car at launch. Either that or they haven't had the time/resource to focus on both...?

Fair point though

[ORD]

pti said:

Sorry, bad morning

I would imagine someone, somewhere has done the sums and the business case is stronger to focus on the rep car at launch. Either that or they haven't had the time/resource to focus on both...?

Fair point though

No worries

I agree - someone must have crunched some numbers. I am sure I am wrong, but I cannot quite see why. Is there something analogous to the idea of releasing the open-top F-Type before the coupe? Saving the better car for later means that you can sustain interest for longer, perhaps. As you say, someone must have worked out that the loss of sales to the impatient is offset by these and other positive effects.

[pti]

ORD said:

No worries

I agree - someone must have crunched some numbers. I am sure I am wrong, but I cannot quite see why. Is there something analogous to the idea of releasing the open-top F-Type before the coupe? Saving the better car for later means that you can sustain interest for longer, perhaps. As you say, someone must have worked out that the loss of sales to the impatient is offset by these and other positive effects.

I think there may have been some of that with the F-Type but I also think it's largely that, because it was designed as a convertible first, it was ready first.

I know Porsche play the game with releasing the entry levels initially in the hope that owners will 'upgrade' once a quicker version comes along.

[ORD]

pti said:

ORD said:

No worries

I agree - someone must have crunched some numbers. I am sure I am wrong, but I cannot quite see why. Is there something analogous to the idea of releasing the open-top F-Type before the coupe? Saving the better car for later means that you can sustain interest for longer, perhaps. As you say, someone must have worked out that the loss of sales to the impatient is offset by these and other positive effects.

I think there may have been some of that with the F-Type but I also think it's largely that, because it was designed as a convertible first, it was ready first.

I know Porsche play the game with releasing the entry levels initially in the hope that owners will 'upgrade' once a quicker version comes along.

Porsche also sometimes does it the other way around (e.g. the Macan, which was launched with the 6-cyl engines and the 4-cyls come later). I doubt many people exchange a 911 S for the GTS when that comes out, but I suppose a few nutters might!

I expect the XE was designed around the new 4-cyl engines and Jaguar has not prioritised getting the 6-cyl version ready for the launch.

I agree that there are some pretty clever people who plan these things, and I am just aggravated by the idea that the decent versions of the XE will probably come too late for my next purchase

[loudlashadjuster]

I suspect it may be something to do with maximising revenue. As has been said, non-EU export markets will take vastly more of the V6 versions so if production capacity is in any way constrained (and it will be) then it makes sense to push what sells into each market.

Hence we'll initially get dull-but-worthy 4-pot diesels and the yanks will get the V6s. In time the ranges will be expanded in all markets, but the cashflow situation will look better for it, even if it irks the likes of us at some kind of emotional level.

[anonymous-user]

They will, quite sensibly, follow the "BMW" model for their new car lifecycle! Get the dull but high selling 2.0d's done and out the door, leave plenty of "room" for mid life face/spec lifts, then do the convertable/sports version approx 1year after inital launch to garner a few more column inches to boost sales a little. Then after around 2.5 to 3 years, release the "Life Cycle Impulse" version ie the one with the nice trim/wheels, the better infotronics package and a revised, even more fuel efficient diesel. What they NEED to do however, is not forget to start working on the replacement entirely new platform model the moment they finish developing the current one. This is where the Germans are so far ahead, with at least 1 platform already lined up ready to go when the competition "jumps" up it's spec.

You've only got to look at how long JLRs 3.0d was "The most powerful diesel" in the market. About 2 weeks in fact, before the germans simply released the one they had ready and waiting with another 20bhp.......

[RacerMike]

Max_Torque said:

They will, quite sensibly, follow the "BMW" model for their new car lifecycle! Get the dull but high selling 2.0d's done and out the door, leave plenty of "room" for mid life face/spec lifts, then do the convertable/sports version approx 1year after inital launch to garner a few more column inches to boost sales a little. Then after around 2.5 to 3 years, release the "Life Cycle Impulse" version ie the one with the nice trim/wheels, the better infotronics package and a revised, even more fuel efficient diesel. What they NEED to do however, is not forget to start working on the replacement entirely new platform model the moment they finish developing the current one. This is where the Germans are so far ahead, with at least 1 platform already lined up ready to go when the competition "jumps" up it's spec.

You've only got to look at how long JLRs 3.0d was "The most powerful diesel" in the market. About 2 weeks in fact, before the germans simply released the one they had ready and waiting with another 20bhp.......

Max, most of your posts are spot on, but this one I'm afraid isn't! It still takes all the Germans just as long to develop a new car. They don't simply have platforms 'ready to go'...the development time alone is 1-2years on prototypes, so even if they did have the designs on the table, it would take them a significant amount of time to develop the car to production ready level.

Whilst undoubtedly everyone's next big project will be influenced by what their competitors are doing, the reaction time is far too slow to respond in a knee jerk style.

[anonymous-user]

RacerMike said:

Max_Torque said:

They will, quite sensibly, follow the "BMW" model for their new car lifecycle! Get the dull but high selling 2.0d's done and out the door, leave plenty of "room" for mid life face/spec lifts, then do the convertable/sports version approx 1year after inital launch to garner a few more column inches to boost sales a little. Then after around 2.5 to 3 years, release the "Life Cycle Impulse" version ie the one with the nice trim/wheels, the better infotronics package and a revised, even more fuel efficient diesel. What they NEED to do however, is not forget to start working on the replacement entirely new platform model the moment they finish developing the current one. This is where the Germans are so far ahead, with at least 1 platform already lined up ready to go when the competition "jumps" up it's spec.

You've only got to look at how long JLRs 3.0d was "The most powerful diesel" in the market. About 2 weeks in fact, before the germans simply released the one they had ready and waiting with another 20bhp.......

Max, most of your posts are spot on, but this one I'm afraid isn't! It still takes all the Germans just as long to develop a new car. They don't simply have platforms 'ready to go'...the development time alone is 1-2years on prototypes, so even if they did have the designs on the table, it would take them a significant amount of time to develop the car to production ready level.

Whilst undoubtedly everyone's next big project will be influenced by what their competitors are doing, the reaction time is far too slow to respond in a knee jerk style.

eh? Where did i say it took them less time to push their platforms through PD?? What i said is that they are famous for starting the "next" one immediately (and sometimes before) they finish developing the current one. That is why, after approx 5 MYs they are now pretty much an entire MY ahead of JLR....... ;-)