Electronic handbrakes are lethal!

[CB2152]

IanCress said:

CB2152 said:

My 9-5 has a standard handbrake, but does have to be put in reverse gear before you can even take the key out. Excellent if the handbrake fails facing downhill, not so much I presume, if it fails while facing uphill...

Why? You'll get the same amount of engine braking either way.

Really? I thought it worked because the reverse gear wouldn't turn forwards and vice versa. If it's just engine braking that does it, that's good to hear!

[RicksAlfas]

thatdude said:

Question is, if I am facing downhill, should I leave it in a forward gear, and if I am facing up hill, should I leave it in reverse?

CB2152 said:

My 9-5 has a standard handbrake, but does have to be put in reverse gear before you can even take the key out. Excellent if the handbrake fails facing downhill, not so much I presume, if it fails while facing uphill...

I don't think it matters. The likelihood of the car overcoming the engine's compression and actually rolling away is very unlikely!

[graham22]

thatdude said:

RicksAlfas said:

This has been more common since "everyday" cars went onto rear disc brakes. The disc contracts as it cools and slightly releases the handbrake. I've known of an Omega and two Passats roll away because of it.

That could explain my observations of my handbrake...put it on, it's fine, then 20 seconds later it starts to start creaking, so I have to re-apply

Surely that's the scenario where the electronics could be programmed to monitor and reset the electric handbrake every 10 secs or so for a certain period after stopping.

[Jimmyarm]

The problem with them is, they are fairly early tech.

Each manufacturer has it's own take on the idea and some are better than others.

As much as I hate to say it, the Renault system is quite good in it's general operation until you want to take it off and leave it off without the car running. Then it goes mental

The vauxhall ones seem stupid, half the time you have to pull the button 3 or 4 times before anything happens but it is much easier to disengage it.

The other issue with them is that you can't 'feel' what the handbrake is doing, with a normal lever (or pedal) you can feel when the handbrake is getting slack and needs adjusting/repairing.

[trickywoo]

HereBeMonsters said:

It won't roll either way if left in gear.

What gear is it best to park in?

I had a car turn the engine in 1st (from stationary) on a steep but not very steep road. I don't know if it would have stopped as I bottled it and used the foot brake.

[RicksAlfas]

trickywoo said:

What gear is it best to park in?

I had a car turn the engine in 1st (from stationary) on a steep but not very steep road. I don't know if it would have stopped as I bottled it and used the foot brake.

First or reverse. If it's a really steep hill turn your front wheels so the car would hit the kerb if it rolled.

[Fastdruid]

RicksAlfas said:

thatdude said:

Question is, if I am facing downhill, should I leave it in a forward gear, and if I am facing up hill, should I leave it in reverse?

CB2152 said:

My 9-5 has a standard handbrake, but does have to be put in reverse gear before you can even take the key out. Excellent if the handbrake fails facing downhill, not so much I presume, if it fails while facing uphill...

I don't think it matters. The likelihood of the car overcoming the engine's compression and actually rolling away is very unlikely!

Absolutely. The only reason that it "matters" is that it's not a particularly good idea to turn an engine in reverse so its best to put it in the gear which would make the engine turn the "right" way, hence the advice is to put it in 1st if you are nose down and reverse if you are nose up.

[jamieduff1981]

As above just the same as with piston engines and gearboxes, not all electronic park brakes are equal.

Jaguar Land Rover implementation works great and offers cabin design benefits with no loss of anything you'd lament in the car.

When some cheapo facsimile is produced by Vauxhall or whatever disappoints it would be unwise to denounce them all as rubbish. It's as disingenious as that daft automatic gearbox thread based upon the shortcomings of a particularly naff installation of that type of machinery.

[Chris Stott]

Muzzer79 said:

I think I'm alone in really liking my electronic handbrake.

In over 2 years and 40k miles, it's never failed and the auto-hold works perfectly.

Also, if you stop and turn the engine off, I'm pretty sure that it engages automatically.

I know a lot of people have had problems with them but I now find it weird getting into a car without one.

Same.

Mine works perfectly... except you can't really do handbrake turns with it.

[Clivey]

After having experienced them, I'll say that in something like a luxury saloon, they work well and suit the car but in anything "sporty", a traditional handbrake is the only way IMO. Things like this (& lack of manual gearbox option) would really put me off a car.

[scarble]

CB2152 said:

Really? I thought it worked because the reverse gear wouldn't turn forwards and vice versa. If it's just engine braking that does it, that's good to hear!

Sorry but
Try to imagine the kind of mechanism that'd prevent that, would your reverse gear be a great big ratchet or are engines somehow physically not able to be turned backwards? They're just a bunch of roundy-roundy and uppy downy bits, nothing to stop reverse rotation. If you've ever tried to set the timing on an engine you'll know that they easily turn in both directions. A 2 stroke will even run in reverse if you bump it backwards, so will a 4-stroke diesel for that matter, but not for long.

Best gear to use is whichever is the shortest ratio, so depends on your car, or if they're the same it doesn't really matter.
If you're facing uphill point your wheels away from the kerb and if you're facing downhill point them towards the kerb, this way if your car starts to roll it will roll into the kerb and hopefully the kerb will stop it

eta: Electronic handbrakes suck, they have zero redeeming features and should be banned. I feel for you OP and applaud you for your quick thinking and brave actions.

[jamieduff1981]

Clivey said:

After having experienced them, I'll say that in something like a luxury saloon, they work well and suit the car but in anything "sporty", a traditional handbrake is the only way IMO. Things like this (& lack of manual gearbox option) would really put me off a car.

In all seriousness I have a spare Jag actuator and seriously thought that it would help the Cerbera which has a really awkwardly positioned handbrake that's marginal at best and very awkward/long term painful to use. In the end I shelved the idea because part of the reason the Jag one works so well is because it's been fully integrated in to the systems of the car in terms of how much automation it has in when it applies itself or releases itself and how button presses are handled. I couldn't replicate that in an otherwise manual car so the Cerbera will remain fully manual, parked in gear on level ground only and a PITA to hillstart.

I really like them. The only thing they're not any use for is handbrake turns, which nobody who isn't a 15 year old joyrider ever does.

[Shurv]

Electronic handbrakes are the work of devils. I've driven cars with them, and would refuse to buy any car without a proper handbrake ( or a manual gearbox). Call me a luddite,( I've been called worse), but why feck with something that works.

[uuf361]

I quite like my electronic handbrake.......Had the car almost 2 years and never had an issue unlike one of the normal handbrake cars I've had at the same time, which was rubbish - it's never failed, or even gone remotely wrong thus far (but it is French so there's still time )

Mine screams alarms at you if the door is opened and the handbrake isn't engaged and assumed others did this too ?

[rigga]

Wife's meriva has one and never an issue to use, foot on brake, lift button and the handbrake light illuminates on the dash, brakes on. also leave it gear as precaution should anything fail. (Do this anyway on those with mechanical handbrakes) as car won't start without first depressing clutch anyway.

[dxg]

scarble said:

CB2152 said:

Really? I thought it worked because the reverse gear wouldn't turn forwards and vice versa. If it's just engine braking that does it, that's good to hear!

Sorry but
Try to imagine the kind of mechanism that'd prevent that, would your reverse gear be a great big ratchet or are engines somehow physically not able to be turned backwards? They're just a bunch of roundy-roundy and uppy downy bits, nothing to stop reverse rotation. If you've ever tried to set the timing on an engine you'll know that they easily turn in both directions. A 2 stroke will even run in reverse if you bump it backwards, so will a 4-stroke diesel for that matter, but not for long.

Erm, gear ratios? Trying to get a car to roll in either direction while it's in reverse will be harder than trying to get it roll in either direction if it is in first.

Having said that, I have fallen into the habit of putting it in gear in the opposite direction to the slope of the hill. Only likely to be right half the time, I know...

[gherkins]

My Jaguar XF one works perfectly - I never have to think about it - it's completely intuitive, as is the gearbox. That said, other cars I've driven with them include a Renault (which was ok, but seemed hard to disengage), a Volvo (a bit slow, but not too bad) and a Merc (which was awful).

IMHO, the modern tech works if it's instinctive to use. If not, then there's something wrong.

[Pixelpeep7r]

IanCress said:

What car is it? Every time I hear one of these stories it's always an Insignia.

Bravo that man. saw a brand new pre-pdi insignia roll off a vauxhall forecourt and straight into a parked ford across the road.

Salesmans excuse 'i honestly put the handbrake on, bloody electronic handbrakes, it must have failed'

[irocfan]

Shurv said:

Electronic handbrakes are the work of devils. I've driven cars with them, and would refuse to buy any car without a proper handbrake ( or a manual gearbox). Call me a luddite,( I've been called worse), but why feck with something that works.

if everyone looked at it that way IK Brunnel would've have had no career at all - "wooden ships work perfectly well and wood floats, metal doesn't. New fangled rubbish. Bah humbug!" not to mention Barnes Wallis, Frank Whittle among (many) others

[Clivey]

jamieduff1981 said:

In all seriousness I have a spare Jag actuator and seriously thought that it would help the Cerbera which has a really awkwardly positioned handbrake that's marginal at best and very awkward/long term painful to use.

Painful? How so?

jamieduff1981 said:

In the end I shelved the idea because part of the reason the Jag one works so well is because it's been fully integrated in to the systems of the car in terms of how much automation it has in when it applies itself or releases itself and how button presses are handled. I couldn't replicate that in an otherwise manual car so the Cerbera will remain fully manual, parked in gear on level ground only and a PITA to hillstart.

The problem isn't that the Cerbera has a traditional handbrake, just that the one it does have doesn't sound like it's working correctly. A decent traditional handbrake, as I'm sure you know, just works.

jamieduff1981 said:

I really like them. The only thing they're not any use for is handbrake turns, which nobody who isn't a 15 year old joyrider ever does.

But, but, but...I'm 25 actually!!!



I just feel more "in control" of a car at junctions etc. with a handbrake (and off-road in the Disco).