great video on breakdown of an overtake gone wrong.

great video on breakdown of an overtake gone wrong.

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slipstream 1985

Original Poster:

12,123 posts

178 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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I know it's a youtube video and bikes but this is very relevant to car drivers on this site too as we are likely to partake in more overtakes than the average road user.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxtv9qJ6Alk



to me bikers are taught to stay in the mirror view of the car infront with the lights on, however the mistake was not getting to the far left of the road to see round that corner when behind the blue rav 4. That all started from the previous overtake that put him out of position to make the best judgement call for starting a seperate overtaking manouver. fair play for putting the video up we all make mistakes on the road. Youl learn more from that than any successful overtake without incident.

GoTea

6,039 posts

176 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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That's why you should never overtake on a blind corner.

Fair play to the guy for uploading it.

GreatPretender

26,140 posts

213 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Got to disagree there Mark (didn't want to start a debate on FB).

Bikers aren't really 'taught' anything about overtaking, other than keeping a safe distance from the car in front and maintaining a dominant road position. Moving over to the left would no doubt have provided a slightly better view round the corner, but at the same time, the maneuver itself would have taken longer; putting the rider in the same or even greater danger. Not to mention the fact that his view would have been impeded by the Rav 4 anyway.

Bottom line: if you're going to go, make sure you can carry out the maneuver in the distance you can see to be clear. In this case, the rider failed to observe that rule. His limit point is irrelevant for an overtake; he couldn't see far enough round the corner to be confident of a return to the left before any oncoming traffic.

However, much respect for his posting it. A great learning tool for us all.

Higgs boson

1,091 posts

152 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Maybe dropping a gear, or two, before the overtake would have helped. However, it's easy to be wise after the event.
Anyway, I've had a rummage around my box of vowels, and I've decided to give a couple of Os to GP. whistle

carreauchompeur

17,830 posts

203 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Fair play for uploading it and the reflection behind it. However, the next overtake is a bit 'slingshotty' too...

I think the main problem was speed differential. And obviously limited vision. If the overtaken car had been much slower then it wouldn't have been such an issue.

eliot

11,361 posts

253 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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good for him posting it, but he seems to be saying its ok to overtake on a blind corner if you wait one second.

How fast was the artic going? 40-50 on a single carriageway?
Imagine a someone out for a 'hoon' coming the opposite direction doing 60-70 ? Or even another biker going even faster?

Surely the lesson should be dont overtake on a blind corner?

StottyEvo

6,860 posts

162 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Fair play for him uploading and doing a breakdown of the situation.

Although I would've thought he would be unlucky in that situation to be killed, he had enough time to get back in and worst case as the lorry moved over he could have squeezed between the car and the lorry.

aka_kerrly

12,415 posts

209 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Fair play for having the balls to say that he was being a bit of a tosser and for posting it online, a stark reminder that things can get of hand very quickly!

R_U_LOCAL

2,676 posts

207 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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slipstream 1985 said:
the mistake was not getting to the far left of the road to see round that corner when behind the blue rav 4.
This.

Probably the best place to overtake is coming off a right-hand bend, but your position needs to be towards the nearside to get the best view into the corner.

Quite a pragmatic narration by the rider, but he doesn't seem to have learned from it - the next overtake on the green truck would have been better if he'd initially moved nearside for the view, then completely offside before accelerating into the overtake. He'd just passed a warning sign for a crossroads when he started the overtake and didn't seem to have a full view before starting to accelerate.

You can generally make better progress on the road by hanging back a bit more and waiting for overtaking opportunities to present themselves, rather than pushing into every available gap.

He seems to have a decent attitude to his mistakes, but would probably benefit from some advanced instruction.

All that jazz

7,632 posts

145 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Like others have said, fair play to him for uploading and admitting his error, but it seems he still has a lot more lessons to learn as he overtook the next artic just before a crossroads junction according to the road sign a few seconds before he pulled out.

Mastodon2

13,818 posts

164 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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He should have looked at the speed of the blue RAV4, the safe zone to drop into is actually moving quickly and his landing spot is not far from being around the corner as he begins the overtake. However, he is just rolling from car to car with these easy overtakes that a torquey bike like that Triumph gives with ease. However, as he admitted, he has finished one overtake with the intention of starting the next and making a good video. The second overtake at the end of the video is not too bad, the quality of the video means we can't see as well down the road as him, but as long as he was sure of junctions and field entrances left and right, he drops back a bit for a better view then goes for it.

Personally, I wouldn't have gone for the overtake there, it pings all the alerts for "hazard zone" for me, so I'd be on high alert for trouble, and trying to pass on a blind bend is a big no. And with bikes, you don't need to be greedy with overtakes, my GSX-R piles on speed between 50-120mph that slotting overtakes is a piece of piss. When I'm hopping cars in a queue like that with little overtakes, again I would be very away of hazards to the offside and near side.

He simply got caught out by trying too hard to keep his momentum going. Even on his Triumph, from 50mph he'd be at 100mph needing very little time and road, unlike a car where he'd need more road and a bigger gap in incoming traffic to build that speed. Still, at least he seems keen to learn from his mistakes, but I'm not sure that waiting an extra second to do an overtake on a blind bend makes a difference - the bend is still blind.

JakeT

5,406 posts

119 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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It does make you think a lot as everyone that does overtake either in car or on bike has one where they think 'fk I just nearly died' but really being able to see is the moral. Not one more second. If you can't see it is a death wish. There could have been anything there unseen and waiting to kill. Especially a biker.

Spangles

1,441 posts

184 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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The first overtake was crap as well, right across an entrance.

Motorrad

6,811 posts

186 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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As others have said fair play to the guy for posting it and obviously you never make any maneuver unless you can see it to be clear.

He really needs to read the Police motorcycle roadcraft manual and understand it.


NoNeed

15,137 posts

199 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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What a good bloke for putting that on line. We can all be fantastic armchair anylists but to show others your mistakes takes real balls from a real bloke.

TurboHatchback

4,151 posts

152 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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Fair enough that he actually acknowledged his mistake but that was a really stupid overtake. You should always know that you can complete your overtake with plenty of time to spare even if someone appears coming the other way going at over the speed limit. Overtaking on a corner like that is just moronic.

JakeT said:
It does make you think a lot as everyone that does overtake either in car or on bike has one where they think 'fk I just nearly died' but really being able to see is the moral. Not one more second. If you can't see it is a death wish. There could have been anything there unseen and waiting to kill. Especially a biker.
No I've never thought this. If I'm not 100% sure that I can complete the overtake with no danger then I don't go, anything else is just irresponsible and stupid.

aw51 121565

4,771 posts

232 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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He's a brave man, posting that video! smile

It's just like driving an LHD car in the UK - hang right back (and left, when approaching a right hand bend wink ) - and get a good look ahead by whatever means before overtaking, whether in town or on the open road, no matter which way the road goes...

Actually, that's more true than I realise - if he'd placed himself a lot further to the left when behind the "blue jeep" with his vanishing point past the oncoming right hand bend, he'd have gained his "extra second" (or a few seconds) for free wink !

One lucky - and later reflective cloud9 - rider, with lessons for all of us smile .

jimreed

119 posts

122 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]

jjones

4,422 posts

192 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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only mistake i saw was that he had the front wheel on the ground.





wink

IntriguedUser

988 posts

120 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
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That 1 second!

Nothing, and then 1 second the whole from end of a lorry, makes you think.