Driverless cars in the UK
Discussion
It'll be interesting to see what the lifespan is, as I would think that the economics of the situation would suggest a wide scale move from private ownership to car-club membership.
Mainly due to what has been said in the thread previously - why own a car if you can summon one to wherever you are in minutes, or schedule a car to pick you up from a specific spot using your smart-phone.
Those cars in use could therefore enjoy hugely higher utilisation than is currently the norm- running constantly through the day.
There would of course still be rush hour, but if you are booking your place in a vehicle via an application such as Uber then it would be logical to put four people in each car- reducing rush hour traffic by ~75% with no reduction in the number of people travelling.
Busses would be a thing of the past, as would trains (depending on some solution to the battery issue such as inductive charging from circuits buried in the motorway being found).
All that space in central London dedicated to parking cars could be turned into gardens, housing and park land. Think of the value of land tied up in car parks within the M25 right now.
Be interesting to see if we need an air-ambulance anymore if all traffic on the road swiftly moves to one side and the responding vehicle can go flat out.
Mainly due to what has been said in the thread previously - why own a car if you can summon one to wherever you are in minutes, or schedule a car to pick you up from a specific spot using your smart-phone.
Those cars in use could therefore enjoy hugely higher utilisation than is currently the norm- running constantly through the day.
There would of course still be rush hour, but if you are booking your place in a vehicle via an application such as Uber then it would be logical to put four people in each car- reducing rush hour traffic by ~75% with no reduction in the number of people travelling.
Busses would be a thing of the past, as would trains (depending on some solution to the battery issue such as inductive charging from circuits buried in the motorway being found).
All that space in central London dedicated to parking cars could be turned into gardens, housing and park land. Think of the value of land tied up in car parks within the M25 right now.
Be interesting to see if we need an air-ambulance anymore if all traffic on the road swiftly moves to one side and the responding vehicle can go flat out.
It's just another example of technical progress "de-skilling" (ok, changing the required skills of) the population.
Progress is often a good thing: Health, comfort and standards of living are far higher than in the past, but the side-effect is that life becomes increasingly 'passive', especially in the physical sense.
It's arguable that very few of us are in any way self-sufficient in 2014, but as the population become more and more reliant upon technology, if the electricity goes off, the GPS system fails or the internet breaks down, then lots of people will be almost entirely unable to cope with even fairly simple situations.
Progress is often a good thing: Health, comfort and standards of living are far higher than in the past, but the side-effect is that life becomes increasingly 'passive', especially in the physical sense.
It's arguable that very few of us are in any way self-sufficient in 2014, but as the population become more and more reliant upon technology, if the electricity goes off, the GPS system fails or the internet breaks down, then lots of people will be almost entirely unable to cope with even fairly simple situations.
MC Bodge said:
It's just another example of technical progress "de-skilling" (ok, changing the required skills of) the population.
Progress is often a good thing: Health, comfort and standards of living are far higher than in the past, but the side-effect is that life becomes increasingly 'passive', especially in the physical sense.
It's arguable that very few of us are in any way self-sufficient in 2014, but as the population become more and more reliant upon technology, if the electricity goes off, the GPS system fails or the internet breaks down, then lots of people will be almost entirely unable to cope with even fairly simple situations.
Or even the implication of cyber warfare! It could bring a country to its knees Progress is often a good thing: Health, comfort and standards of living are far higher than in the past, but the side-effect is that life becomes increasingly 'passive', especially in the physical sense.
It's arguable that very few of us are in any way self-sufficient in 2014, but as the population become more and more reliant upon technology, if the electricity goes off, the GPS system fails or the internet breaks down, then lots of people will be almost entirely unable to cope with even fairly simple situations.
Erm, driving a car is not physical exercise- that's a large part of the impending public health disaster that the UK is facing.
Driverless cars might encourage many more people to cycle or walk as the current high perceived risk of these activities will massively reduce as you take the human element out of driving.
As someone who both drives and cycles I can't wait for motorised vehicles to be removed from human control.
Driverless cars might encourage many more people to cycle or walk as the current high perceived risk of these activities will massively reduce as you take the human element out of driving.
As someone who both drives and cycles I can't wait for motorised vehicles to be removed from human control.
TLandCruiser said:
Ironically your killing the enjoyment of driving, it's a sad day for me when automated electric/ hybrid cars are driving around with no soul...people born in 2000s won't understand what it would be like driving and listening to a v8 as you drive along the country roads the noise, feeling and freedom it brings.
I don't think we need stats to show that the majority of car journeys are commuting, business travel, shopping etc. Mostly on Mways, DCs and urban centres. There is no enjoyment in that for most people. Whether it's the cost of fuel or a lack or desire or whatever people just don't 'go for a drive' like they used to. It's a means to an end, not the end itself.I was born in the 70s and I don't recognise the image you portray. I guess it's harking back to a time where driving was still a relatively new (or newly affordable) experience for many people, with far fewer cars on the roads. That time is never coming back. So long as there's still the opportunity to use a normal car I don't see a problem, although on PH many others will disagree.
technodup said:
don't think we need stats to show that the majority of car journeys are commuting, business travel, shopping etc. Mostly on Mways, DCs and urban centres. There is no enjoyment in that for most people. Whether it's the cost of fuel or a lack or desire or whatever people just don't 'go for a drive' like they used to. It's a means to an end, not the end itself.
I was born in the 70s and I don't recognise the image you portray. I guess it's harking back to a time where driving was still a relatively new (or newly affordable) experience for many people, with far fewer cars on the roads. That time is never coming back. So long as there's still the opportunity to use a normal car I don't see a problem, although on PH many others will disagree.
I was talking about myself and not people in general, I enjoy driving and my commute to work is via country lanes and I enjoy it very much. Driving is not new to me either.I was born in the 70s and I don't recognise the image you portray. I guess it's harking back to a time where driving was still a relatively new (or newly affordable) experience for many people, with far fewer cars on the roads. That time is never coming back. So long as there's still the opportunity to use a normal car I don't see a problem, although on PH many others will disagree.
On a separate note, I also don't like the way our way of life is becoming more isolated from social interaction and seems to involve more interaction with computers. When I look at my childhood to how children these days seem to be more home bound on computers etc it almost looks like we are at risk of some kind of social devolution.
Munter said:
None of your failures have made the car unsafe to operate and as such are made without regard to failure (other than avoiding warranty liability and damage to the reputation of the brand).
Like I said, I didn't start on the mechanicals. I had the front driver's side caliper sieze on on the Mway, for example, which was fun.(I should point out I hate this car, but so long as it keeps sort of running, and not costing more than up to about £200 a time to fix, I can't bring myself to buy another one)
Dr Murdoch said:
Not wishing to argue, but I went to a road safety summit a few month ago, attended by top bods from the AA, the minster for transport, shadow minster for transport and the 'head of road safety for the EU' along with several organisations/research centres with a link to transport/road safety.
Anyway, long story short, they anticipate driver-less cars in the UK in about 6 years time, give or take a year.
I don't see you being argumentative.Anyway, long story short, they anticipate driver-less cars in the UK in about 6 years time, give or take a year.
When the summit mentioned "Driver-less"...did they clarify if that meant...
actually driver-less (take me to McDonalds please)
or
driver can take his foot of the accelerator and hands off the steering wheel while on the motorway
They are two VERY different scenarios. With a little bit of (seriously not recommended) modification current cars are already available that will allow the latter(http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-videos/forget-the-google-car-get-an-s-class-and-a-soda-can). The former is still a long way off, in my opinion.
Debaser said:
I think you're being very optimistic with your timing. There's not a chance that by the end of 2026 you'll have to place a special order to buy a car that doesn't drive itself. Self driving cars aren't going to be commonplace any time soon.
It wasn't that long ago we were predicted to have flying cars and hoverboards by 21st October 2015.
By the end of 2026 most cars on sale will have a self drive component. It wasn't that long ago we were predicted to have flying cars and hoverboards by 21st October 2015.
We already have normal family cars that are part way there. Radar for sensing other cars speeds, safety braking, lane control, adaptive cruise control, even down to watching the driver making sure they don't fall asleep.. All this in a relatively low end ford. Today.
Computers already control throttle, brakes, steering, the rest is just plugged in.
RobDickinson said:
By the end of 2026 most cars on sale will have a self drive component.
We already have normal family cars that are part way there. Radar for sensing other cars speeds, safety braking, lane control, adaptive cruise control, even down to watching the driver making sure they don't fall asleep.. All this in a relatively low end ford. Today.
Computers already control throttle, brakes, steering, the rest is just plugged in.
I haven't read one comment that says part control is difficult. It's not. Production ready adaptive cruise control is 16 years old tech.We already have normal family cars that are part way there. Radar for sensing other cars speeds, safety braking, lane control, adaptive cruise control, even down to watching the driver making sure they don't fall asleep.. All this in a relatively low end ford. Today.
Computers already control throttle, brakes, steering, the rest is just plugged in.
So in that 16 years, in which we have had huge advances in drive by wire tech, how many vehicles are now on sale that have even limited semi-autonomous driving capability?
I'd buy one as long as I can have other cars that I can drive, as it means on long journeys I can treat it as a personal train, also if done my way it could drop you off at the airport drive itself back home and then meet you back at the airport when you get back so no parking charges.
Only issue I see is what I will call the formula 1 2011 effect. The game was fantastic but if you go in the pits the game is so cautious that you won't get released if another car is anywhere near. I see this as a problem for driverless cars where if they are all driverless they can talk to each other and merge smoothly. But what will happen when there is amid of driven and driverless? I suspect they will be made to be so cautious in order to stop accidents that they will get easily bullied and struggle to interact and merge with normal cars.
Only issue I see is what I will call the formula 1 2011 effect. The game was fantastic but if you go in the pits the game is so cautious that you won't get released if another car is anywhere near. I see this as a problem for driverless cars where if they are all driverless they can talk to each other and merge smoothly. But what will happen when there is amid of driven and driverless? I suspect they will be made to be so cautious in order to stop accidents that they will get easily bullied and struggle to interact and merge with normal cars.
Dammit said:
Driverless cars might encourage many more people to cycle or walk as the current high perceived risk of these activities will massively reduce as you take the human element out of driving.
How do you take the human element out of walking and cycling?Seriously, what makes you think that as the perceived risk reduces, that the actual risk won't increase correspondingly - the walking and cycling equivalent of the spike on the steering wheel?
I've already noticed more and more suicidal antics being pulled by cyclists since the 20mph speed limits in Bristol came into force, as more and more of them start expecting everyone else to look out for them.
Removing the human element from driving does not magically repeal the laws of physics - as more and more people are unfortunately going to discover the hard way.
Kawasicki said:
I don't see you being argumentative.
When the summit mentioned "Driver-less"...did they clarify if that meant...
actually driver-less (take me to McDonalds please)
or
driver can take his foot of the accelerator and hands off the steering wheel while on the motorway
They are two VERY different scenarios. With a little bit of (seriously not recommended) modification current cars are already available that will allow the latter(http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-videos/forget-the-google-car-get-an-s-class-and-a-soda-can). The former is still a long way off, in my opinion.
Driverless.When the summit mentioned "Driver-less"...did they clarify if that meant...
actually driver-less (take me to McDonalds please)
or
driver can take his foot of the accelerator and hands off the steering wheel while on the motorway
They are two VERY different scenarios. With a little bit of (seriously not recommended) modification current cars are already available that will allow the latter(http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-videos/forget-the-google-car-get-an-s-class-and-a-soda-can). The former is still a long way off, in my opinion.
Road trains could be just round the corner
RobDickinson said:
Debaser said:
I think you're being very optimistic with your timing. There's not a chance that by the end of 2026 you'll have to place a special order to buy a car that doesn't drive itself. Self driving cars aren't going to be commonplace any time soon.
It wasn't that long ago we were predicted to have flying cars and hoverboards by 21st October 2015.
By the end of 2026 most cars on sale will have a self drive component. It wasn't that long ago we were predicted to have flying cars and hoverboards by 21st October 2015.
We already have normal family cars that are part way there. Radar for sensing other cars speeds, safety braking, lane control, adaptive cruise control, even down to watching the driver making sure they don't fall asleep.. All this in a relatively low end ford. Today.
Computers already control throttle, brakes, steering, the rest is just plugged in.
I disagree that a car that doesn't drive itself will have to be a special order in 2026.
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