RE: Pay per view: PH Blog

[Passeyfier]

So the way I can see it, the standard DRIVE channel will be a kind of highlights reel from the full-length films available on DRIVE+. Will the cut down versions on DRIVE simply be the automotive reviews and such or will the other segments such as AFTERDRIVE and the like be slimmed down too?

[camshafted]

Don't really get the "I am happy, it's a fifth of the price of the BBC license fee" etc argument.

You get a lot more than a couple of motoring videos a month with the BBC - TV, radio, iPlayer, online, news, entertainment, sport etc. In comparison, Netflix is around £6 a month (?), Sky Movies is around £4 a month, so £2.50 a month for Drive seems a lot.

Maybe Drive should have looked to have teamed up with a large-scale online publisher like the Mail Online on a more attractive revenue share basis.

I really hope Drive+ works, because the Chris Harris videos are superb, but I don't think I will be paying for it.

[RobertK81]

OpulentBob said:

http://www.reddit.com/user/TheSmokingTire

A summary of Mr Toys-Out-The-Pram's comments. I think he'd had a bad day or a drink problem or something.

Well, that's Matt Farah. That's exactly why I like TST, and listen to their podcast. He doesn't beat around the bush with his opinions, he doesn't hide them under PR-Bullst-Speak.

And frankly, he is correct with this:

TST said:

The only answer that will make everyone happy is to work our asses off and give it away for free

Regards,

Robert

[toppstuff]

RobertK81 said:

TST said:

The only answer that will make everyone happy is to work our asses off and give it away for free

Considering his work life revolves around the internet, I am surprised he has not figured this out already.

People won't pay for content. They just wait for someone to come along willing to offer it for nothing. When that person gives up , they wait for someone else to try and consume their content until that person gives up, and on it grinds...

Edited by toppstuff on Friday 1st August 15:18

[kenno78]

andyp79 said:

kenno78 said:

This.

If it was just Monkey doing a video each week I'd happily stump up for the subscription. Can't stand the other stuff on Drive.

Why not stump up and just watch the Chris Harris stuff then?

Because as ridiculous as it sounds, I can't abide by 'waste'. I'd be paying for stuff I don't actually want and frankly can't stand. Say there are 5 streams to drive and its split equally. Only 50p goes towards the content I want to have produced and viewed. I'm much rather Chris and Neil got £2.50 and have more of what they have to offer.

[chrispmartha]

RobertK81 said:

OpulentBob said:

http://www.reddit.com/user/TheSmokingTire

A summary of Mr Toys-Out-The-Pram's comments. I think he'd had a bad day or a drink problem or something.

Well, that's Matt Farah. That's exactly why I like TST, and listen to their podcast. He doesn't beat around the bush with his opinions, he doesn't hide them under PR-Bullst-Speak.

And frankly, he is correct with this:

TST said:

The only answer that will make everyone happy is to work our asses off and give it away for free

Regards,

Robert

Nah, he's wrong on that score as well, the simple fact is, they will never make everyone happy, ever, whether its free or not. And as he's worked within the internet medium for a while he should really know that.

[North West Tom]

RobertK81 said:

And frankly, he is correct with this:

TST said:

The only answer that will make everyone happy is to work our asses off and give it away for free

Regards,

Robert

Stuff like this annoys me. They make it sound like a chore, and that we should sympathise that they're using 'their own' (Youtube funded) money to drive these exclusive supercars and travel the world. JF used HIS OWN air miles to fly to Abu Dhabi to drive a Mclaren P1! Blasphemy! Poor guy! Nobody is forcing Chris Harris to drive a LaFerrari. Nobody is asking Matt Farrah to road trip in an Aventador to Vegas. Nobody asked Mike Spinelli and JF Musial to start up Drive and put on a show for us without us paying them. The paid subscription has received negative feedback, and now they are throwing a hissy fit saying that we owe them money, and are trying to make us feel guilty for not wanting to pay.

[CJP80]

Bobby Shaftoe said:

LOL, A common misconception but it really isn't. For the vast majority in TV it's nothing more than a decent way to earn a reasonable wage. Clarkson, May and Hammond are the almost sole exception to this in the motoring Television sphere. As someone mentioned above, it's still a pitance for staring in the most recognisable motoring show in the world when compared to C-rate american sitcom stars. (though i beleive for TG it's around £6k/day rather than /episode and Clarkson and his business parter owned the right, which of course helps)

Edited by Bobby Shaftoe on Friday 1st August 16:01

It's all relative. I know a certain gardening programme presenter is on more than £300k per annum. Pretty sure CH will not see that from Drive this year.

[camshafted]

This may well have been raised before, but with cars like the LaFerrari and P1, manufacturers will want a certain amount of a return on investment. They want bumper page click / magazine sales and, of course, YouTube / video player views.

They may have get enough subscribers to fund the general running costs, but the view count will drop significantly. Will the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini etc want to lend cars for videos which may only be viewed by a small number? And how will they know they'll be getting the 'desired' subscribers i.e people considering buying a car.

On a separate, but kind-of-related note, XCar have very good production values and offer free content. They're off to the USA for three weeks to make various films. I think they're funded by CNET, and use YouTube ad sense as well. I expect they probably sell their videos too. They remain free. I wonder if their model is sustainable, or whether they will be looking at this very closely, wondering what to make of the situation.

[chrispmartha]

Bobby Shaftoe said:

Not sure how they manage to get to £9k for that vid

Edited by Bobby Shaftoe on Friday 1st August 15:38

Harris' fee ;-)

[chrispmartha]

North West Tom said:

Stuff like this annoys me. They make it sound like a chore, and that we should sympathise that they're using 'their own' (Youtube funded) money to drive these exclusive supercars and travel the world. JF used HIS OWN air miles to fly to Abu Dhabi to drive a Mclaren P1! Blasphemy! Poor guy! Nobody is forcing Chris Harris to drive a LaFerrari. Nobody is asking Matt Farrah to road trip in an Aventador to Vegas. Nobody asked Mike Spinelli and JF Musial to start up Drive and put on a show for us without us paying them. The paid subscription has received negative feedback, and now they are throwing a hissy fit saying that we owe them money, and are trying to make us feel guilty for not wanting to pay.

This ^^

[oldtimer2]

Having read through the reddit/smoking tyre link (given above) Matt Farah makes some sensible points in his characteristically blunt fashion. Notably that YT has not been a regular payer, causing gaps in Drive`s output. He also makes the valid point that each minute of finished video requires many multiples of that in shot footage and time in the editing suite to produce a professional edit. That is a significant, unavoidable cost. He confirmed my suspicion that many of the offerings produced by the print media are loss leaders.

Time alone will tell if they can succeed. At least they are making the effort for which they should be applauded.

[kikiturbo]

North West Tom said:

Stuff like this annoys me. They make it sound like a chore, and that we should sympathise that they're using 'their own' (Youtube funded) money to drive these exclusive supercars and travel the world. JF used HIS OWN air miles to fly to Abu Dhabi to drive a Mclaren P1! Blasphemy! Poor guy! Nobody is forcing Chris Harris to drive a LaFerrari. Nobody is asking Matt Farrah to road trip in an Aventador to Vegas. Nobody asked Mike Spinelli and JF Musial to start up Drive and put on a show for us without us paying them. The paid subscription has received negative feedback, and now they are throwing a hissy fit saying that we owe them money, and are trying to make us feel guilty for not wanting to pay.

there is a clear difference between going to a circuit for a trackday or driving around in a test car and doing it professionally and producing some content out of it... A magazine or video feature will take at least a whole day (and I mean 12+ hrs) to shoot and whole day (in case of photography) up to several days (video) to edit. Then you need to think of some copy to put in and produce the final content.. there goes a day, two, or three, times 2 or 3 people minimum, even for most basic features. So, we end up with something like 5-10 people/days spent on a feature. Now, I agree it is fun, sometimes, but I ask you will you let go of your weekly wage to do something and then give it out to everyone for free.. ?

[KarlMac]

kikiturbo said:

North West Tom said:

Stuff like this annoys me. They make it sound like a chore, and that we should sympathise that they're using 'their own' (Youtube funded) money to drive these exclusive supercars and travel the world. JF used HIS OWN air miles to fly to Abu Dhabi to drive a Mclaren P1! Blasphemy! Poor guy! Nobody is forcing Chris Harris to drive a LaFerrari. Nobody is asking Matt Farrah to road trip in an Aventador to Vegas. Nobody asked Mike Spinelli and JF Musial to start up Drive and put on a show for us without us paying them. The paid subscription has received negative feedback, and now they are throwing a hissy fit saying that we owe them money, and are trying to make us feel guilty for not wanting to pay.

there is a clear difference between going to a circuit for a trackday or driving around in a test car and doing it professionally and producing some content out of it... A magazine or video feature will take at least a whole day (and I mean 12+ hrs) to shoot and whole day (in case of photography) up to several days (video) to edit. Then you need to think of some copy to put in and produce the final content.. there goes a day, two, or three, times 2 or 3 people minimum, even for most basic features. So, we end up with something like 5-10 people/days spent on a feature. Now, I agree it is fun, sometimes, but I ask you will you let go of your weekly wage to do something and then give it out to everyone for free.. ?

Again, tragically missing the point that there are 100s of channels on YT doing the same thing without subs.

Have Drive ever even bothered to try selling merch? Can't say I've seen any.

[kikiturbo]

KarlMac said:

Again, tragically missing the point that there are 100s of channels on YT doing the same thing without subs.

Have Drive ever even bothered to try selling merch? Can't say I've seen any.

to quote Drive..

TheSmokingTire said:

While I can appreciate your sentiment and suggestions, let me explain to you point by point why they won't work:

Merch/Sponsors: /DRIVE requires $1m/year to operate. We could never make $1m profit of merchandise, and with the exception of Seinfeld, there has never been a 7-figure ad buy for a YouTube channel. Those options would never cover our costs.

How people want us to spend our money: you're making a lot of assumptions there that have very little basis in reality. Maybe you don't want us to spend money on plane tickets to get places, but that's how we make films. We can't do what we do without traveling; the cars aren't brought to us; we go to the cars. Maybe you don't want Chris sliding supercars around, but those are just about the highest viewed videos we've got. Maybe you don't think it takes 30 hours to edit a video, but quality editing takes 1.5 hours of filming and 2.5 hours of editing per minute of finished video, and that's when you have a professional editor. That means if I make a 10 minute video, it's 15 hours of filming and 25 hours of editing to complete.

Hope that helps explain our position.

I know there is content out there that lives from advertising, hell I work in media and advertising... and I may agree that there might have been better options for Drive plus... (also, I think that Drivers Republic was a wonderful format way ahead of it's time).. however I also believe that there is a market for payperview content and that real customers will recognize that.. This will of course hurt the "virality" of Drive content, and it might just drive some of the manufacturers away, who knows.. but it is a feasible model and the audience shouldn't get hurt..

[KarlMac]

Bobby Shaftoe said:

KarlMac said:

I still haven't worked out how roadkill manage a sponsor funded show (hot rod garage and roadkill live) and Mighty Car Mods can fund a £15k project car build, but Drive, the premium car video source (apparently) are incapable of funding the gap.

I do love Roadkill, for me it strikes the perfect balance between general entertainment and 'tech car stuff', whereas i find Top gear too much of the former, and Drive too much of the latter.

Roadkill is, i believe, run alongside HotRod magazine so have a budget derived from a more general pool of funds, and also share the feature cares to make the shoots more cost efficient. Freiburger and Finnegan will be writing articles and still photography for the mag whilst doing the video shoots.

Frieburger has said a number of times on the WOT panel show (which is also better than after drive) that all the videos they shoot have to wash their own face and not interfere with magazine operations, which is why they normally only get a few days to shoot.

[EricE]

After reading the comments on reddit I really hope Drive+ fails and Mr. Harris and Mr. Carey start their own venture with paid content. That should also lower costs.

The rest of the /Drive crew just gets carried by those two guys and it seems to get to their heads.

[tomjol]

North West Tom said:

Stuff like this annoys me. They make it sound like a chore, and that we should sympathise that they're using 'their own' (Youtube funded) money to drive these exclusive supercars and travel the world. JF used HIS OWN air miles to fly to Abu Dhabi to drive a Mclaren P1! Blasphemy! Poor guy! Nobody is forcing Chris Harris to drive a LaFerrari. Nobody is asking Matt Farrah to road trip in an Aventador to Vegas. Nobody asked Mike Spinelli and JF Musial to start up Drive and put on a show for us without us paying them. The paid subscription has received negative feedback, and now they are throwing a hissy fit saying that we owe them money, and are trying to make us feel guilty for not wanting to pay.

If anybody sounds like they think they are owed something, it's you.

These videos cost money to produce. If they are going to continue, an alternative method of funding must be employed. How difficult is this to understand?

[thecremeegg]

kikiturbo said:

there is a clear difference between going to a circuit for a trackday or driving around in a test car and doing it professionally and producing some content out of it... A magazine or video feature will take at least a whole day (and I mean 12+ hrs) to shoot and whole day (in case of photography) up to several days (video) to edit. Then you need to think of some copy to put in and produce the final content.. there goes a day, two, or three, times 2 or 3 people minimum, even for most basic features. So, we end up with something like 5-10 people/days spent on a feature. Now, I agree it is fun, sometimes, but I ask you will you let go of your weekly wage to do something and then give it out to everyone for free.. ?

Is anyone making them do these videos? I have to say I find it hard to sympathise that people aren't paying them to drive supercars all day. If there isn't a market for the paid content then deal with it, either quit or innovate. It's no great loss for us, there are millions of other videos that can be viewed for free.

[Justices]

I am subscribing. The content CH puts together is more than worth it to me. That there will be more of it is a bonus.

Not to have to listen to the awful droning, monotone reviews from guys who clearly don't belong in front of a camera (Autocar lot especially) is reason enough to sign up.

Get subscribing, you tight arses! Perhaps a tv show will come of it for Harris if they can keep it going.