RE: Pay per view: PH Blog
Discussion
Chris
Have you pitched at Discovery?
If not, pick up the phone and ring Victoria Noble at Discovery.
They pay that annoying t
t Mike Brewer to talk utter bks about mainly ste cars.
You just need a slightly more focused USP than doing skids in cars, but there is a LOT of motoring tv being made now for discovery channel.
Have you pitched at Discovery?
If not, pick up the phone and ring Victoria Noble at Discovery.
They pay that annoying t
t Mike Brewer to talk utter bks about mainly ste cars.You just need a slightly more focused USP than doing skids in cars, but there is a LOT of motoring tv being made now for discovery channel.
johnfm said:
Chris
Have you pitched at Discovery?
If not, pick up the phone and ring Victoria Noble at Discovery.
They pay that annoying tt Mike Brewer to talk utter bks about mainly ste cars.
You just need a slightly more focused USP than doing skids in cars, but there is a LOT of motoring tv being made now for discovery channel.
He is going to need firstly, a 'look' for TV and also some kind of sidekick. Have you pitched at Discovery?
If not, pick up the phone and ring Victoria Noble at Discovery.
They pay that annoying t
t Mike Brewer to talk utter bks about mainly ste cars.You just need a slightly more focused USP than doing skids in cars, but there is a LOT of motoring tv being made now for discovery channel.
Well, he's got his Norman Wisdom doffing suit and I think teaming him up with 'Vengeful Pits' would make for the perfect low grade stuff TV needs to sell Chinese tat to benefit slaves.
Each week they compare a 911 to some other object, like a fridge or a hedge while Vengeful Pits froths rabidly in the corner about Porsches over an image of JC?
They could then interview forum people who like to do things such as unsubscribe from a free channel that is still free in petulant and pathetic protest to a newer version being paid for by people who would like to watch it and not being paid for by those who don't. Or, if that proves too complex just talk to a cabbage for a few minutes.
I think this is a real nice case study on the topic of media content vs. the "new consumer". What I find interesting is that we have, roughly, 3 types of individuals in this discussion. First group like what Drive does and subscribes. Second group doesn't find it worth the money and will not subscribe.. but the third group is the most interesting.. People who would like to watch the videos but are bhing about the fact that they will have to pay for it from now on and are trying to find whatever reason to slag Drive on the topic just because they feel that drive should still be free.... 
hing about the fact that they will have to pay for it from now on and are trying to find whatever reason to slag Drive on the topic just because they feel that drive should still be free.... DonkeyApple said:
johnfm said:
Chris
Have you pitched at Discovery?
If not, pick up the phone and ring Victoria Noble at Discovery.
They pay that annoying tt Mike Brewer to talk utter bks about mainly ste cars.
You just need a slightly more focused USP than doing skids in cars, but there is a LOT of motoring tv being made now for discovery channel.
He is going to need firstly, a 'look' for TV and also some kind of sidekick. Have you pitched at Discovery?
If not, pick up the phone and ring Victoria Noble at Discovery.
They pay that annoying t
t Mike Brewer to talk utter bks about mainly ste cars.You just need a slightly more focused USP than doing skids in cars, but there is a LOT of motoring tv being made now for discovery channel.
Well, he's got his Norman Wisdom doffing suit and I think teaming him up with 'Vengeful Pits' would make for the perfect low grade stuff TV needs to sell Chinese tat to benefit slaves.
Each week they compare a 911 to some other object, like a fridge or a hedge while Vengeful Pits froths rabidly in the corner about Porsches over an image of JC?
They could then interview forum people who like to do things such as unsubscribe from a free channel that is still free in petulant and pathetic protest to a newer version being paid for by people who would like to watch it and not being paid for by those who don't. Or, if that proves too complex just talk to a cabbage for a few minutes.
You know initially my thoughts went to calling the drive crew gold diggers.
However £25 a year isn't bad at all.
When you consider the price of a car mag £5, it's really on the button.
If the quality is good I'll sign up. Some of the discussion videos on Drive are a load of waffle though.
However £25 a year isn't bad at all.
When you consider the price of a car mag £5, it's really on the button.
If the quality is good I'll sign up. Some of the discussion videos on Drive are a load of waffle though.
Flipfloptrader said:
How can the likes of shmee150 make a substantial living off YouTube with 1/5th of the subscribers yet Drive has failed in its current format?
Cost... shmee150 is a one-man show, I believe somebody said in an interview that /Drive has over ten people working on the content. Flights, accommodation, camera equipment, etc — it adds up.EricE said:
Cost... shmee150 is a one-man show, I believe somebody said in an interview that /Drive has over ten people working on the content. Flights, accommodation, camera equipment, etc — it adds up.
Camera equipment is a sunk cost.Does it need 10 people working on it full time?
Again, I don't think anyone is disputing that a business that operates at a loss is sustainable, or that the people involved aren't entitled to a profit, but it seems to me given the content & no promises of anything substantially different to what is already free now - trying to charge £2.49 p/m for it is a tall ask.
It's a delicate balance of course - as things stand now the existing free videos will continue to pay ad revenue after the point at which they have paid for themselves, so the issue seems to be more of expectations management. You can't expect the CPM model to pay out like a pot of money at the end of each month from a subscription would, but conversely the CPM model is more of an incentive to manufacturers to support it. Sticking stuff behind a paywall that only 20k people are signed up to see, suddenly the likes of McLaren might not be so enamoured with paying for e-celebrities flights...
Then again maybe this £2.49 price point is designed to be a "pay people back and cash out/sell the brand" scheme?
Drive will be up against some stiff competition which is free, at least so far, so I hope they have better luck than Drivers republic
Evo just released this in the past few days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1LhUzL3qdU
For free that's not too shabby I am sure you will agree
They do have the annoying banner adds though. But even so, it's the best single video representation of the Evo article in print from the magazine article I have seen in a long time.
Perhaps this is where the real niche is. You get it in print so you can sit on the bog reading it and imagine it in your mind and then next month you get the video to put meat on the bones. What you lose with not being able to report as quickly with a magazine you make up for with real in depth coverage in print and then video. Less pictures and more words in the mag and then the video to say a thousand words.
I'd be happy.
And so would my toilet seat, being kept so warm.
You know, when I get my copy of Evo, I sprinkle rose petals over the toilet and light scented candles, then it is just the three of us, man, plastic commode and wood based paper products for the glorious un-interupted time......
Evo just released this in the past few days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1LhUzL3qdU
For free that's not too shabby I am sure you will agree
They do have the annoying banner adds though. But even so, it's the best single video representation of the Evo article in print from the magazine article I have seen in a long time.
Perhaps this is where the real niche is. You get it in print so you can sit on the bog reading it and imagine it in your mind and then next month you get the video to put meat on the bones. What you lose with not being able to report as quickly with a magazine you make up for with real in depth coverage in print and then video. Less pictures and more words in the mag and then the video to say a thousand words.
I'd be happy.
And so would my toilet seat, being kept so warm.
You know, when I get my copy of Evo, I sprinkle rose petals over the toilet and light scented candles, then it is just the three of us, man, plastic commode and wood based paper products for the glorious un-interupted time......
Edited by Gandahar on Sunday 3rd August 16:26
Hello all, and, yes, I did sign up just to comment on this.
I'm certain my opinion will carry precisely as much weight as it deserves, that being bugger all, but, I thought I'd have at it anyway.
I enjoy CH's videos, enjoyed them at autocar, enjoyed them at Evo, saw a few DR vids and really am a fan of the Chris Harris on cars brand.
It is of the fate of this brand that most concerns me.
For the rest of the Drive issue I would say this: Most of it is not to my liking. Spinelli has no charisma, JF is ok, but, he always comes across as a little bit of a sycophant during the factory visits.
The other fella, Leo something maybe, well, the less said the better and as for Farah, well, he can be entertaining, but, also comes across as petulant and very "American", this certainly alienates some and his comments in response to the drive plus issue have shown him to be such and has, it is clear, alienated many potential subscribers.
Chris H has seemingly worked very hard over the years to establish himself, through CH on cars, as a brand in his own right.
He moved himself into a position where he had attained a loyal following and was an asset to any organisation that took him on. He had attained a status in the world of motoring journalism second only to Clarkson in my view and in terms of pure talent was actually the better journalist.
He was well on his way to mainstream television as long as motoring remained to be broadcast on mainstream television.
The problem comes with his impatience, reflected in repeatedly trying to "monetise" that popularity, to cash in on it, too early.
First it was Drivers republic and then Drive.
JF's offer must, one concludes, have been very tempting indeed to lure Monkey, once described as having the ruthlessness of a motor trader, and one can only extrapolate that JF played his full hand when he established drive.
By trying to get "talent" who already had a substantial following and offering the kind of remuneration that first, entices established names in each area to join a start-up and second, leads to enormous staff overheads, he imagined that with the migration of the established presenters' fanbases he would immediately get enough clicks, and therefore revenue, to make the channel a commercial success.
At the end of the two years that business has failed, the model has not succeeded and they have been cut loose to take part in the great Youtube experiment of how they, youtube, will gain more revenue for itself... If Drive survive then so will others, youtube will cut them loose and we'll be asked to fund them too. Basically, If we will pay for drive then we'll pay for anything and all youtube channels can be "monetised":
If we make the mistake of paying for this one, we'll be expected to pay for all of them, just as happened when Mr Murdoch took the football from BBC and shortsighted people started paying him for it and funding his organisation to take more and more things we used to get for our license fee and charge us for them. As people have pointed out, they already pay 50-80 pound a month for Sky. It used to be 25 pound a year for sky and before that it all used to be on the four terrestrial channels for the cost of your license fee! Had people refused to sign up for Sky and lived one year without live bloody football we'd still be getting every race of formula one, rallying and football to name but a few, for the simple cost of the license. I will not take part in paying for another organisation to get rich whilst depriving me of the value for money I get with my license fee.
Where does this leave Monkey?
Well, I'm afraid to say that as I see it CH has just binned years and years of work in his attempt to live the life before it's his time.
When one is a celebrity and therefore ones' income is tied up in actually having a fanbase it's incredibly important not to piss them all off, especially if you now need them to directly subsidise your lifestyle.
Farah has revealed that the level of content one will receive for the princely sum of 25 quid is less than was produced in the first period of Drive's existence. He has indicated that we will receive, for our 2.50 a month, around 3 hours content. 3 hours content?
Pay money for less product than received when it was free? Brave, very brave indeed.
25 pound a year for nothing tangible, nothing I can hold, touch or even own... Evo, to put it into context, gives me a magazine that I can read for more than 3 hours, refer back to 5 years down the line if i wish as I actually get to own it and on top they provide a website, bit crap and not really updated, but, I pay for the magazine, so, i'm not bothered and, on top of that, they give me video, some good, some not so good, but, it doesn't cost me extra and they're not offering me 3 Nick Trott's, one Catchpole and a Meaden, which Drive is: 3 really annoying people who should never be on camera, one tolerable but sometimes annoying host, and one single watchable and affable presenter.
3 hours of content that will include Spinelli and that other guy, the really obnoxious one.
Pffft, that just isn't anything resembling value for money.
As predicted, it seems reasonable that 98% will not sign up.
Many will continue to watch the free videos, but, should the free CH on cars remain as is now presented, a two minute advert that contains nothing but a hint at the interesting stuff and in the main Chris sliding round a circuit then I can see that percentage of followers getting slimmer and slimmer every month.
A motoring journalist who doesn't have a huge personal fanbase is just a motoring journalist and they don't get to use Ferrari financial services whenever they fancy.
The brand is now subject to tarnish at the hands of others. The reddit comments have driven away at least one subscriber and I'm certain that other people are thinking:
"I like that monkey chap, but, I'm not giving a penny to that petulant and disrespectful git Farah".
By throwing in his hat with these people he will be judged by their actions and behaviours, in celebrity life you really are guilty by association and Farah would appear to be a ticking timebomb.
So, now my money, if i were to give it, also has to pay for the PR department that has to take over all your social media output to prevent any more foot in mouth syndrome.
I do not understand what process made Harris believe that the next step should be one that locks his product behind a wall that only a very small percentage is willing to pay for and how that will do anything other than diminish the brand he has worked so hard to establish.
How will they continue to get the cars to test?
Yes, when you've got a million plus views I'm certain the likes of BMW and Ferrari are lining up to throw cars at you, unless you say something bad about them, then you need to buy one, make a video about that, be really nice for months about all their cars and then you're allowed to drive one again because above all you do get millions of views and they know you'll say something nice or you'll get punished again (what was it JF said about the sanctity of impartiality?)...
Not quite the same picture when your audience is 30-40k.
Really, for 35,000 views its not worth the cost of the tyres to the marketing departments of big companies to continue to lend you guys cars, you don't represent value for money to them either.
I feel, as others have suggested, that it would have been better for Mr Harris to have worked out how to separate from Drive, establish the CH on cars Channel, fund his lifestyle with a few columns and freelance work whilst exploring other opportunities to grow the brand and create more output for less money. There were some real opportunities for him to attract an even greater following, even greater presence and eventually greater income.
When the audience goes and if Drive doesn't work, then he won't have quite the same gravitas when going looking for a job and the impression that he's a bit flighty, to say the least, and jumps ship the moment there's a bit more on the horizon, may mean he's not quite the commodity he once was.
Chris should shoot his agent and bury him outside in a shallow grave next to the one into which he just put the majority of his audience.
Anyway, only my uninformed opinion and so should be treated as such.
I don't know Monkey, neither do most of us.
I hope I'm wrong and I hope one day we will still see Monkey on mainstream TV one day, but, I fear that in one year the internet will remember him, if they remember him at all, as "That guy in that great vid with the Veyron, Superleggera, GT3 RS, R8 and DB9"
Anyway, good luck.
I'm certain my opinion will carry precisely as much weight as it deserves, that being bugger all, but, I thought I'd have at it anyway.
I enjoy CH's videos, enjoyed them at autocar, enjoyed them at Evo, saw a few DR vids and really am a fan of the Chris Harris on cars brand.
It is of the fate of this brand that most concerns me.
For the rest of the Drive issue I would say this: Most of it is not to my liking. Spinelli has no charisma, JF is ok, but, he always comes across as a little bit of a sycophant during the factory visits.
The other fella, Leo something maybe, well, the less said the better and as for Farah, well, he can be entertaining, but, also comes across as petulant and very "American", this certainly alienates some and his comments in response to the drive plus issue have shown him to be such and has, it is clear, alienated many potential subscribers.
Chris H has seemingly worked very hard over the years to establish himself, through CH on cars, as a brand in his own right.
He moved himself into a position where he had attained a loyal following and was an asset to any organisation that took him on. He had attained a status in the world of motoring journalism second only to Clarkson in my view and in terms of pure talent was actually the better journalist.
He was well on his way to mainstream television as long as motoring remained to be broadcast on mainstream television.
The problem comes with his impatience, reflected in repeatedly trying to "monetise" that popularity, to cash in on it, too early.
First it was Drivers republic and then Drive.
JF's offer must, one concludes, have been very tempting indeed to lure Monkey, once described as having the ruthlessness of a motor trader, and one can only extrapolate that JF played his full hand when he established drive.
By trying to get "talent" who already had a substantial following and offering the kind of remuneration that first, entices established names in each area to join a start-up and second, leads to enormous staff overheads, he imagined that with the migration of the established presenters' fanbases he would immediately get enough clicks, and therefore revenue, to make the channel a commercial success.
At the end of the two years that business has failed, the model has not succeeded and they have been cut loose to take part in the great Youtube experiment of how they, youtube, will gain more revenue for itself... If Drive survive then so will others, youtube will cut them loose and we'll be asked to fund them too. Basically, If we will pay for drive then we'll pay for anything and all youtube channels can be "monetised":
If we make the mistake of paying for this one, we'll be expected to pay for all of them, just as happened when Mr Murdoch took the football from BBC and shortsighted people started paying him for it and funding his organisation to take more and more things we used to get for our license fee and charge us for them. As people have pointed out, they already pay 50-80 pound a month for Sky. It used to be 25 pound a year for sky and before that it all used to be on the four terrestrial channels for the cost of your license fee! Had people refused to sign up for Sky and lived one year without live bloody football we'd still be getting every race of formula one, rallying and football to name but a few, for the simple cost of the license. I will not take part in paying for another organisation to get rich whilst depriving me of the value for money I get with my license fee.
Where does this leave Monkey?
Well, I'm afraid to say that as I see it CH has just binned years and years of work in his attempt to live the life before it's his time.
When one is a celebrity and therefore ones' income is tied up in actually having a fanbase it's incredibly important not to piss them all off, especially if you now need them to directly subsidise your lifestyle.
Farah has revealed that the level of content one will receive for the princely sum of 25 quid is less than was produced in the first period of Drive's existence. He has indicated that we will receive, for our 2.50 a month, around 3 hours content. 3 hours content?
Pay money for less product than received when it was free? Brave, very brave indeed.
25 pound a year for nothing tangible, nothing I can hold, touch or even own... Evo, to put it into context, gives me a magazine that I can read for more than 3 hours, refer back to 5 years down the line if i wish as I actually get to own it and on top they provide a website, bit crap and not really updated, but, I pay for the magazine, so, i'm not bothered and, on top of that, they give me video, some good, some not so good, but, it doesn't cost me extra and they're not offering me 3 Nick Trott's, one Catchpole and a Meaden, which Drive is: 3 really annoying people who should never be on camera, one tolerable but sometimes annoying host, and one single watchable and affable presenter.
3 hours of content that will include Spinelli and that other guy, the really obnoxious one.
Pffft, that just isn't anything resembling value for money.
As predicted, it seems reasonable that 98% will not sign up.
Many will continue to watch the free videos, but, should the free CH on cars remain as is now presented, a two minute advert that contains nothing but a hint at the interesting stuff and in the main Chris sliding round a circuit then I can see that percentage of followers getting slimmer and slimmer every month.
A motoring journalist who doesn't have a huge personal fanbase is just a motoring journalist and they don't get to use Ferrari financial services whenever they fancy.
The brand is now subject to tarnish at the hands of others. The reddit comments have driven away at least one subscriber and I'm certain that other people are thinking:
"I like that monkey chap, but, I'm not giving a penny to that petulant and disrespectful git Farah".
By throwing in his hat with these people he will be judged by their actions and behaviours, in celebrity life you really are guilty by association and Farah would appear to be a ticking timebomb.
So, now my money, if i were to give it, also has to pay for the PR department that has to take over all your social media output to prevent any more foot in mouth syndrome.
I do not understand what process made Harris believe that the next step should be one that locks his product behind a wall that only a very small percentage is willing to pay for and how that will do anything other than diminish the brand he has worked so hard to establish.
How will they continue to get the cars to test?
Yes, when you've got a million plus views I'm certain the likes of BMW and Ferrari are lining up to throw cars at you, unless you say something bad about them, then you need to buy one, make a video about that, be really nice for months about all their cars and then you're allowed to drive one again because above all you do get millions of views and they know you'll say something nice or you'll get punished again (what was it JF said about the sanctity of impartiality?)...
Not quite the same picture when your audience is 30-40k.
Really, for 35,000 views its not worth the cost of the tyres to the marketing departments of big companies to continue to lend you guys cars, you don't represent value for money to them either.
I feel, as others have suggested, that it would have been better for Mr Harris to have worked out how to separate from Drive, establish the CH on cars Channel, fund his lifestyle with a few columns and freelance work whilst exploring other opportunities to grow the brand and create more output for less money. There were some real opportunities for him to attract an even greater following, even greater presence and eventually greater income.
When the audience goes and if Drive doesn't work, then he won't have quite the same gravitas when going looking for a job and the impression that he's a bit flighty, to say the least, and jumps ship the moment there's a bit more on the horizon, may mean he's not quite the commodity he once was.
Chris should shoot his agent and bury him outside in a shallow grave next to the one into which he just put the majority of his audience.
Anyway, only my uninformed opinion and so should be treated as such.
I don't know Monkey, neither do most of us.
I hope I'm wrong and I hope one day we will still see Monkey on mainstream TV one day, but, I fear that in one year the internet will remember him, if they remember him at all, as "That guy in that great vid with the Veyron, Superleggera, GT3 RS, R8 and DB9"
Anyway, good luck.
Gandahar said:
Drive will be up against some stiff competition which is free, at least so far, so I hope they have better luck than Drivers republic
Evo just released this in the past few days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1LhUzL3qdU
For free that's not too shabby I am sure you will agree
Enjoyed that - and not an ounce of drifting. Thanks.Evo just released this in the past few days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1LhUzL3qdU
For free that's not too shabby I am sure you will agree
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