RE: Lotus Elise Sport 135: PH Fleet
Discussion
2nd Rog at Sabre Heads out in the fens. His KR1 set up is the mutts nuts.
On an s1 consider the c/r gearbox if you are modifying..... not sure if the S135 came with it or not ?
My old 135R had 4 into 2 into 1 piper, B&C backbox, high lift cams and hurricane intake and made the sort of number you're after. Didn't go verniers as it timed fine without them....
On an s1 consider the c/r gearbox if you are modifying..... not sure if the S135 came with it or not ?
My old 135R had 4 into 2 into 1 piper, B&C backbox, high lift cams and hurricane intake and made the sort of number you're after. Didn't go verniers as it timed fine without them....
"Does it need it? Of course not ...."
You answered your own question.
Even the standard S1 Elise is plenty quick enough ..... I love mine.
And as others have observed ..... they are a fairly rare beast. Completely unmolested S1s will be much sought after in years to come ..... the 135 even more so.
Leave it be.
P.S. The car only weighs in at around 700Kgs .... so if you go on a diet and keep the tank as low as possible you'll improve the performance. Ditching the hard top would also help.
You answered your own question.
Even the standard S1 Elise is plenty quick enough ..... I love mine.
And as others have observed ..... they are a fairly rare beast. Completely unmolested S1s will be much sought after in years to come ..... the 135 even more so.
Leave it be.
P.S. The car only weighs in at around 700Kgs .... so if you go on a diet and keep the tank as low as possible you'll improve the performance. Ditching the hard top would also help.
Lawrence5 said:
2nd Rog at Sabre Heads out in the fens. His KR1 set up is the mutts nuts.
On an s1 consider the c/r gearbox if you are modifying..... not sure if the S135 came with it or not ?
My old 135R had 4 into 2 into 1 piper, B&C backbox, high lift cams and hurricane intake and made the sort of number you're after. Didn't go verniers as it timed fine without them....
Sport 135 already has the C/B gearbox I believe.On an s1 consider the c/r gearbox if you are modifying..... not sure if the S135 came with it or not ?
My old 135R had 4 into 2 into 1 piper, B&C backbox, high lift cams and hurricane intake and made the sort of number you're after. Didn't go verniers as it timed fine without them....
Lawrence5 said:
On an s1 consider the c/r gearbox if you are modifying..... not sure if the S135 came with it or not ?
There's a useful rundown of the various gearboxes used here:http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Rover_PG1_gearbox
Scott_Mac said:
Go and See Roger at Sabre-Heads and get a quick head port done. Add a Janspeed small bore 4-2-1 manifold and a sports cat and you're not affecting the overall drivability, in fact you're hugely improving it. Much more low down torque and it flies round the rev counter.
Personally i found that cams etc change the characteristics too much, factor in an Emerald ECU and you've spent a fortune and possibly ruined the drivability.
This ^^^^^ A friend has a std 118bhp S1 and had the KR1 head work done. It's now running c 140bhp and absloutely flies.Personally i found that cams etc change the characteristics too much, factor in an Emerald ECU and you've spent a fortune and possibly ruined the drivability.
Impeccible driveability still, just get it done Dan
Its a slippery slope, my head gasket has just gone on my Sport 160, so I thought "Whilst the heads off"....
It's quickly turning into a full engine rebuild! Speak to Sabre heads (Kiwi Rog) or DVA about head work (I've gone for the Kiwi), they'll point you in the right direction.
And Pro Alloy single pass, twin core rad, and Electric water pump will be going on. And whilst I've got the front clam off...
Oh, christ.
It's quickly turning into a full engine rebuild! Speak to Sabre heads (Kiwi Rog) or DVA about head work (I've gone for the Kiwi), they'll point you in the right direction.
And Pro Alloy single pass, twin core rad, and Electric water pump will be going on. And whilst I've got the front clam off...
Oh, christ.
I have an S2 135R (k-series), was in a similar dilemma to yourself a couple of years ago, ended up keeping the K & modding. It's now got ~185bhp & ~160lb/ft of torque. It's great!
Ended up with cams, Verniers, emerald, headwork (Sabreheads), throttle bodies & updated internals.....it's a slippery slope! But makes a noticeable difference.
Definitely worth keeping the k IMO, but as others have said, it's worth thinking about new pistons if you are looking at 160bhp & more torque than standard....
If you need more info, let me know or take a look over on SELOC.
Ended up with cams, Verniers, emerald, headwork (Sabreheads), throttle bodies & updated internals.....it's a slippery slope! But makes a noticeable difference.
Definitely worth keeping the k IMO, but as others have said, it's worth thinking about new pistons if you are looking at 160bhp & more torque than standard....
If you need more info, let me know or take a look over on SELOC.
I have had my S1 'super 160' for 16 years, it came into my care a year old having been modified by Bell and Colvill who supplied it new to someone who had money to spend. The 160 kit provides about 150 bhp.
Over the years, I have fettled away, the biggest improvements have been Nitron suspension dampers (massive transformation) and thereafter the Emerald ECU with decat (flames from exhaust).I now 'waste' money on trying to make it lighter. I cannot deny that more power would be fun in principle, but I am reminded that it makes my heart race at broadly legal speeds, a trait that is becoming rarer by the year as cars become ever more competent. Mine produces 161bhp, I still wouldn't say that it feels particularly fast in a straight line.
All I can say is that it has been bloody good fun, the car is a great companion and I love it to bits. I hope that you are able to hold onto yours for as long as you can, I wouldn't butcher it with a Honda conversion especially as the 135 spec is generally sought after.Just remember to spank it as often as possible..........
Over the years, I have fettled away, the biggest improvements have been Nitron suspension dampers (massive transformation) and thereafter the Emerald ECU with decat (flames from exhaust).I now 'waste' money on trying to make it lighter. I cannot deny that more power would be fun in principle, but I am reminded that it makes my heart race at broadly legal speeds, a trait that is becoming rarer by the year as cars become ever more competent. Mine produces 161bhp, I still wouldn't say that it feels particularly fast in a straight line.
All I can say is that it has been bloody good fun, the car is a great companion and I love it to bits. I hope that you are able to hold onto yours for as long as you can, I wouldn't butcher it with a Honda conversion especially as the 135 spec is generally sought after.Just remember to spank it as often as possible..........
HeMightBeBanned said:
I echo the other comments - don't change the engine. If it wasn't a 135, then yes by all means but the 135 is a rare beast and should be kept as close to original spec as possible.
I'll echo this. The S135 is about as good as it gets. It's power delivery is spot on and deceptive. I've known them happily keep up with same era Exige 190s out on a run. Purely down to the power being much more accessible. I really wouldn't mess with that. It's very easy to ruin a K series, especially one that's just about nailed on already.I'd recommend Piper 270 cams + Emerald ECU. In combination with the 135 head/plenum you'll be close to 160bhp and still have a very driveable car with a wide power band.
Change the rad before it fails and damages the engine (easy not to spot rising temps until it's too late). Front clamshell is not difficult to remove.
Similarly, if the fuel pump is noisy, change it before you get stranded. Corrosion debris tends to build up in the tank and this clogs the gauze filters in the pump and wears the pump, leading to pressure loss. If you change the pump, use POR15 tank sealer or similar to stop the corrosion. I didn't do this the first time my fuel pump got clogged up and ended up taking the tank out a second time.
Change the rad before it fails and damages the engine (easy not to spot rising temps until it's too late). Front clamshell is not difficult to remove.
Similarly, if the fuel pump is noisy, change it before you get stranded. Corrosion debris tends to build up in the tank and this clogs the gauze filters in the pump and wears the pump, leading to pressure loss. If you change the pump, use POR15 tank sealer or similar to stop the corrosion. I didn't do this the first time my fuel pump got clogged up and ended up taking the tank out a second time.
I'd recommend Piper 270 cams + Emerald ECU. In combination with the 135 head/plenum you'll be close to 160bhp and still have a very driveable car with a wide power band.
Change the rad before it fails and damages the engine (easy not to spot rising temps until it's too late). Front clamshell is not difficult to remove.
Similarly, if the fuel pump is noisy, change it before you get stranded. Corrosion debris tends to build up in the tank and this clogs the gauze filters in the pump and wears the pump, leading to pressure loss. If you change the pump, use POR15 tank sealer or similar to stop the corrosion. I didn't do this the first time my fuel pump got clogged up and ended up taking the tank out a second time.
Change the rad before it fails and damages the engine (easy not to spot rising temps until it's too late). Front clamshell is not difficult to remove.
Similarly, if the fuel pump is noisy, change it before you get stranded. Corrosion debris tends to build up in the tank and this clogs the gauze filters in the pump and wears the pump, leading to pressure loss. If you change the pump, use POR15 tank sealer or similar to stop the corrosion. I didn't do this the first time my fuel pump got clogged up and ended up taking the tank out a second time.
juansolo said:
I'll echo this. The S135 is about as good as it gets. It's power delivery is spot on and deceptive. I've known them happily keep up with same era Exige 190s out on a run. Purely down to the power being much more accessible. I really wouldn't mess with that. It's very easy to ruin a K series, especially one that's just about nailed on already.
This is what I thought as well. I remember reading contemporary road tests that found the 135 to be the real sweet spot for these cars, more so than the 160. I think this was mainly down to the power delivery though. Perhaps this is no longer relevant (perhaps the k-series can be tuned much more sweetly at 160+ these days?) but I'd be very cautious about tampering with such a classic car. Try to resit the more power urge!
As an owner of an S1 Sport 135'99 (one of 35 made in 1999 after the first 50 in 1998), I would say keep it closer to standard. I have had similar dilemmas with mine over the years I have owned it.
In case you were aiming to spec it to be closer to a 160 sport, here are a few points;
It is generally believed that although called the "135", they had nearer 145 BHP from the factory. Sport 160s had 153 IIRC from the factory, so in fact there is not much between them. The 135s also came with the CR box, which the 160s did not (although many now have them installed). So, from my experience, on track and on road, the 135 actually goes as well, if not better than the 160s. In fact, on some runs, my humble 135 can comfortably keep with S2 Exiges.
As far as mods go then - it should have a CR box already. The inlet manifold is the VVC part (although it's not the VVC engine). Mine has been ported - I believe that was part of the Sport 135 standard spec.
I have the alloy radiator in mine, and never see the temp rise above 86. If you still have the original rad, I'd be changing that first.
I gave mine a cosmetic refresh this spring (having eventually got it up to scratch mechanically). Unfortunately my very stone chipped windscreen got cracked (oops ) so was an insurance job to be replaced. As that's a "clam off" job, the cost covered by my kind insurers through the windscreen repair, I thought I'd take advantage of the situation and get the clam re-sprayed, stick in some new headlights, covers, re-paint the grills and put a fresh number plate on it. Essentially a new front end. It now looks like new - really chuffed. And did not cost too much. Would be a shame if your windscreen went too, but would be a good time to get that rad changed.
In case you were aiming to spec it to be closer to a 160 sport, here are a few points;
It is generally believed that although called the "135", they had nearer 145 BHP from the factory. Sport 160s had 153 IIRC from the factory, so in fact there is not much between them. The 135s also came with the CR box, which the 160s did not (although many now have them installed). So, from my experience, on track and on road, the 135 actually goes as well, if not better than the 160s. In fact, on some runs, my humble 135 can comfortably keep with S2 Exiges.
As far as mods go then - it should have a CR box already. The inlet manifold is the VVC part (although it's not the VVC engine). Mine has been ported - I believe that was part of the Sport 135 standard spec.
I have the alloy radiator in mine, and never see the temp rise above 86. If you still have the original rad, I'd be changing that first.
I gave mine a cosmetic refresh this spring (having eventually got it up to scratch mechanically). Unfortunately my very stone chipped windscreen got cracked (oops ) so was an insurance job to be replaced. As that's a "clam off" job, the cost covered by my kind insurers through the windscreen repair, I thought I'd take advantage of the situation and get the clam re-sprayed, stick in some new headlights, covers, re-paint the grills and put a fresh number plate on it. Essentially a new front end. It now looks like new - really chuffed. And did not cost too much. Would be a shame if your windscreen went too, but would be a good time to get that rad changed.
Edited by DomShan on Friday 1st August 10:53
as a owner of a 2.0 duratec elise i must spring to its defence, first of all the engine is standard apart from throttle bodies and a ECU when it was mapped it has 191 hp at 7200 and 155 ft pounds at 7150, and remember this is on a standard fiesta st engine. the torque and power curves are really flat and in fact it drives very smoothly,
i bought the car seven years ago and it had a DVA 150 kit fitted(piper cams, verniers and porting, etc) the car was quite quick but it did not run reliably, HGF x 2, even after i fitted new aluminium radiator and remote thermostat i was always watching the temp gauge and the cooling water level.
my car now drives with the similar characteristics to the old k series but just a lot quicker and as a bonus it sounds lovely on the TB's.
i did the conversion myself and it cost about 5.5k with a second hand 20k mile old lump, i am very pleased with the outcome and would recommend the conversion if you cant stretch to 10k for the honda engine swap and you want a reliable elise.
i bought the car seven years ago and it had a DVA 150 kit fitted(piper cams, verniers and porting, etc) the car was quite quick but it did not run reliably, HGF x 2, even after i fitted new aluminium radiator and remote thermostat i was always watching the temp gauge and the cooling water level.
my car now drives with the similar characteristics to the old k series but just a lot quicker and as a bonus it sounds lovely on the TB's.
i did the conversion myself and it cost about 5.5k with a second hand 20k mile old lump, i am very pleased with the outcome and would recommend the conversion if you cant stretch to 10k for the honda engine swap and you want a reliable elise.
The 135 was the best Elise ever made, just drive it as is. Power actually isn't everything. I've driven a Honda Elise on track and its epic but the 135 is just sweet. Wish I had one, I have to make do with a stock 118 s1 with a CR box and 421 manifold and exhaust. That's pretty sweet too.
juansolo said:
I'll echo this. The S135 is about as good as it gets. It's power delivery is spot on and deceptive. I've known them happily keep up with same era Exige 190s out on a run. Purely down to the power being much more accessible. I really wouldn't mess with that. It's very easy to ruin a K series, especially one that's just about nailed on already.
The R32 engined V6 S1 was originally a Sport 135.For something that had the guts ripped out to that extent I always found it a bit of a shame that the donor wasn't a stock S1.
Still, the rarity factor goes up with each one that goes missing. Stick with the k for sure.
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