Friday 1st August 2014

Ringside Seat: bikes only

With the 'soft launch' of bike only tourist sessions Dale ponders the wisdom of segregating bikes and cars

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A curious event occurred at the Nordschleife earlier this year. A motorcycle-only public session appeared in the calendar for late May. It was totally without fanfare, marketing or PR support of any kind. Only eagle-eyed calendar watchers saw it.

I couldn’t figure it out. Was it a marketing failure? Or a deliberate ‘soft’ launch? Either way, it came at such short notice that I couldn’t get hold of a motorcycle in time. But plenty of other people could and did show up. Nearly 100 bikes turned out for a beautiful evening of motorcycling on the Nordschleife.

Bikes on the 'ring: 'you'd have to be mad!' etc

But what surprised me more than the next two almost-accident-free hours was the backlash I witnessed both online and locally.

Coming from a family of both two- and four-wheeled petrol heads, I was a bit miffed. Bikers in public sessions do make up the majority of recorded fatalities at the Nurburgring.  But when an over-enthusiastic car driver gets a corner wrong, the yellow lights are turned on and a Bongard-branded recovery truck is dispatched. Try the same thing on a bike and you could end up with a helicopter ride and a long closure.

“Bloody bikers!” I heard from one regular. “They’re always the ones closing the track on a Sunday. And now they get their own session!”

It might be true that serious bike accidents close the track, but in amongst the rolled-over cars, gigantic graffiti phalluses and ridiculous 10km-long oil spills, I doubt they trigger the majority of closures. And if you rule out the bike accidents where a car has run over some poor leather-wrapped chap, then I bet the numbers look even more modest.

Why shouldn't bikers get their own time?

“When do we get car only sessions?” is nearly always the next line to be uttered by these guys.

Well, apart from the mind-boggling multitude of car track days, training events and three-day schools, I’d also point to ‘NO MOTORCYCLES’ sign that frequently appears in front of the motorcycle gates during busy tourist sessions.

I really don’t think that negativity is going to solve the problem here. Surely if there’s a motorcycle only session, more bikers will be tempted by it? The funneling affect would be quite strong, I reckon. That’s as long as people know about it, of course. Which the ‘soft’ marketing isn’t helping with, I admit. But still, a few weeks on and despite some pretty atrocious weather, the next motorcycle-only evening attracted even greater numbers.

Despite that, the final suggestion I see often here is an intriguing one. “Ban the bikes,” goes the argument. “Save them from themselves! The Nurburgring is too dangerous for a motorcycle.”

Safety cars perhaps the only sensible mix

Now before you cheer them on, let me remind you. Just because you don’t enjoy something, that’s no reason to prevent others from enjoying it. Riding a motorcycle is a personal decision, and I’d like to think that all of those leather-clad power-rangers (myself included) do understand and accept the greater risks of riding a motorcycle quickly on either the road or the track.

What if regular drivers were petitioning to stop us enjoying our cars on racetracks too? We’d tell them to sod off and do one, naturally.

So if you’ve got a bike, then I’m happy to tell you that there are motorcycle-only session each month this summer, the next one on August 26.  And if you’ve got a car, then just come on one of the other 20-or-so driving times that month.

[smilo996]

Well said.

[AdamLoewy]

Was hoping the bike only sessions would continue to be kept quiet and not too busy.
Looking forward to the 26th session

[paranha]

In view of the appalling slaughter of so many Young people, WHY? has it taken such a long time for a logical solution to be used?.Not interested for a moment what the Car drivers have to say about this New idea, more important is what the riders think-----and by the response, its a YES!!!

[Youjutsusha]

I find it a bit stupid these people are complaining about a Bike only day. Its a motorsports track it makes so much sense to seperate cars and bikes it gives me a headache that people would complain.

I would not like to be a biker runover by a car and I would not like to be a car driver trying not to run over a biker.

They are fundamentally different machines that behave completely differently on a track. Both on the track at the same time is frankly a scary proposition to me. You wouldn't mix F1 with MotoGP would you?

Anyway I think its great for Bikers to get their own day and not have to worry about sodding cars running them over or hitting an oil slick that seems to cover a whole corner. (Bikes can drop oil too mind).

For Car Drivers its got to be at least a bit nerve racking when overtaking a biker? You don't particularly want to be responsible for someone's death do you?

[FreQ]

I think it's a great idea giving bikes a couple of days where they can enjoy the track without having to share it with very different machines. It makes a lot of sense and should keep both sides happy.

I think it would be beneficial to have a couple of car only days as well. In these days of equality, I don't think it's correct to try and justify why one group is entitled to something and the others not. A couple of car only/ bike only days each month will likely make everyone happier and allow them to enjoy their track day with like minded people.

I agree in principle with the original story, but it would be better if it came more from a Motorsport enthusiast perspective rather than the car vs bikers perspective which is never going to end well.

[mrdemon]

it's closed every day any way,

only opens for a small slot 2 hours per night which is pointless for people passing by and also no way to do the ring and get the train home the same day either now.

[thatdude]

I would like to ride around the nurburgring on a bike-only day. I would be forever checking my mirrors looking out for porches etc, rathe than enjoying myself. But with bikes, the fast guys will have more room to get by (sort of)

I think it's a good move. You dont get car/bike mixed trackdays, and whilst I appreciate the nordshleifes odd situation of actually being a public "toll road", it's still regarded as a track

So give bikes a day every couple of months (6 session a year) and cars a day on the alternating months (6 sessions a year) and maybe this will keep everyone happy

advertise it enough and crowds will flock

[Tinohead]

Can't see why anyone would think this is anything but a good idea?! I'm 100% 4 wheels, but have a great respect for bikers, I often think they must be a bit unhinged, but then 'normal' people probably think the same of people who take their car round a track.

I've watched in awe from the passenger seat as a bike passed us round the outside of the right hander before the karrasel, looking like he was at an angle of about 45degrees, and so close I could have lent out the window and touched his helmet (ooo-er missus). My mate who was driving though was stting it though(first time he'd driven the ring, and he was driving my car), that he might go a bit wide and take the guy out.

The guys on 2 wheels deserve to enjoy the Ring as much as those of us on 4 wheels, they all know the risks, it's up to them if they want to take them. But it's undoubtedly safer for everyone involved if they get some bike only time.

As was mentioned in the article, there's plenty of times you get car only sessions.

[Dirty]

Wrong! 'Because I don't enjoy something' is a perfectly acceptable reason to ban anything in my world

That said I like bikes and would consider taking mine on a bike only session maybe. I certainly would never take it on a general session?

[fridaypassion]

I think what they are doing is fair and proportionate.

What car drivers should remember is that the 'ring was a BIKING mecca pre Top Gear. We car drivers have kind of taken over the place so I think its fair that if the management want to stick some bike only sessions during the week so be it.

I would never advise anyone to ride a bike on a regular TF day its total insanity so these sessions will allow bikers to reclaim the track and have a chance for some proper laps without sitting up and looking over their shoulder which seems to be a total waste of time to me.

Everyones a winner as far as I can see.

[DreadUK]

Bad enough mixing bad bike riders with bad car drivers on the road never mind when the gloves are off. Particularly when the idiots are in/on machines far too powerful for them without proper training, never mind when they haven't the slightest concept of their or anyone else's safety.

We have the perception in this country that when let loose in a car/bike we are invincible, can defy the laws of physics and drive like Ayrton Senna despite the fact we exist in 30mph traffic for most of our lives and few do little more training than that required to pass a simplistic driving test.

Then it's "let's take our Focus ST/Subaru/R1/Tom Sykes Ninja etc. to a barely controlled open road and mix it with similar morons, and just for a bit of interest, lets mix bikes with cars!!!!!!

Try getting Sykes/Rossi/Hamilton/Maldonado!!!! (even) to compete under the same circumstances and they would run a mile. So why do rank novices expect to be successful when the professionals won't even contemplate it.

Dividing car and bike days is a start but no one should be allowed on that track, or any other, without first being trained and deemed physically and mentally competent. If people want to race, there are lots of properly managed events round the globe they can enter.

"But I just wan't to take it out to see what it can do". It's not about what the car can do, it's about what the driver can do. That's what racing licences are there to protect.

A stupid concept organised by greedy people to sucker the softer minded with more money than sense to part with their dosh.

[ZX10R NIN]

DreadUK said:

Bad enough mixing bad bike riders with bad car drivers on the road never mind when the gloves are off. Particularly when the idiots are in/on machines far too powerful for them without proper training, never mind when they haven't the slightest concept of their or anyone else's safety.

We have the perception in this country that when let loose in a car/bike we are invincible, can defy the laws of physics and drive like Ayrton Senna despite the fact we exist in 30mph traffic for most of our lives and few do little more training than that required to pass a simplistic driving test.

Then it's "let's take our Focus ST/Subaru/R1/Tom Sykes Ninja etc. to a barely controlled open road and mix it with similar morons, and just for a bit of interest, lets mix bikes with cars!!!!!!

Try getting Sykes/Rossi/Hamilton/Maldonado!!!! (even) to compete under the same circumstances and they would run a mile. So why do rank novices expect to be successful when the professionals won't even contemplate it.

Dividing car and bike days is a start but no one should be allowed on that track, or any other, without first being trained and deemed physically and mentally competent. If people want to race, there are lots of properly managed events round the globe they can enter.

"But I just wan't to take it out to see what it can do". It's not about what the car can do, it's about what the driver can do. That's what racing licences are there to protect.

A stupid concept organised by greedy people to sucker the softer minded with more money than sense to part with their dosh.

Are you assuming the majority of people that go to the ring are idiots?

There are plenty of people that go there on two & four wheels that make it round with no training & don't crash people only get beter by practice!

[samoht]

I wouldn't expect (or accept) mixed car/bike trackdays on UK tracks - they're always, rightly, separate.

So I'm not sure why this would be controversial at the 'Ring.

[Technomad]

Good article. Like you, I'm a non-prejudiced two- and four-wheel petrolhead (well, maybe a little prejudiced against caravans…) but the thing that most puts me off the 'Ring on my bike is the differing dynamics of cars and bikes: with turn-in points and mid-corner speeds so different, I spend far too much time looking in my mirrors for a local 911-turbo-numpty hurtling up behind me, oblivious to the laws of physics and the line I need to take. And, for the avoidance of doubt, I drive a 911. So bring on the bike days - that will get me and lots of others back to the 'Ring.

[Technomad]

thatdude said:

I would like to ride around the nurburgring on a bike-only day. I would be forever checking my mirrors looking out for porches etc, rathe than enjoying myself. But with bikes, the fast guys will have more room to get by (sort of)

If you're regularly being overtaken by porches, may I suggest getting up to speed on a smaller circuit first?

[bigblock]

DreadUK said:

Bad enough mixing bad bike riders with bad car drivers on the road never mind when the gloves are off. Particularly when the idiots are in/on machines far too powerful for them without proper training, never mind when they haven't the slightest concept of their or anyone else's safety.

We have the perception in this country that when let loose in a car/bike we are invincible, can defy the laws of physics and drive like Ayrton Senna despite the fact we exist in 30mph traffic for most of our lives and few do little more training than that required to pass a simplistic driving test.

Then it's "let's take our Focus ST/Subaru/R1/Tom Sykes Ninja etc. to a barely controlled open road and mix it with similar morons, and just for a bit of interest, lets mix bikes with cars!!!!!!

Try getting Sykes/Rossi/Hamilton/Maldonado!!!! (even) to compete under the same circumstances and they would run a mile. So why do rank novices expect to be successful when the professionals won't even contemplate it.

Dividing car and bike days is a start but no one should be allowed on that track, or any other, without first being trained and deemed physically and mentally competent. If people want to race, there are lots of properly managed events round the globe they can enter.

"But I just wan't to take it out to see what it can do". It's not about what the car can do, it's about what the driver can do. That's what racing licences are there to protect.

A stupid concept organised by greedy people to sucker the softer minded with more money than sense to part with their dosh.

It appears that you are against track days unless all the participants are trained and deemed physically and mentally competent otherwise they must be idiots and not fit to drive.

Track days are not races just an opportunity to drive fast without the the worry of being done for speeding or encountering vehicles travelling in the opposite direction (hopefully).

[Djtemeka]

I agree with splitting up cars and bikes. I'm a fan of both but ride bikes. Nothing is more scary than a car up yer arse, let alone in a corner!
Both totally different at different parts of a track that a "coming together" is all too probable :/
Looking at most videos on YouTube it seems that cars give bikers a wide berth which is good as regular bikers always get it wrong on a track as do car drivers but when we get it wrong the st hits the fan, it is nice to see considerate drivers on the track.
My only concerns is that without cars on the track, the bikers will try their luck that much more. Kind of like a double edged sword if you like :/

Track days hey.... Great, until it's not

[fridaypassion]

ZX10R NIN said:

Are you assuming the majority of people that go to the ring are idiots?

There are plenty of people that go there on two & four wheels that make it round with no training & don't crash people only get beter by practice!

IMO the dangerous people are the seasoned vets that get into timing themselves. I wold guess most of the most serious accidents are cauased by experienced drivers/riders.

[pegon]

The problem is that the bikes are much slower in the corners than the cars. I have scared myself by coming over much slower bikes in blind corners. The car i use for the ring is a KW clubsport Megane, so you can forget the "if you are overtaken by a Porsche you need to grow a pair" comment.
It is impossible for a bike to hold the same speed as a track prepared car on the ring, and it is the dissimilarity in speed that is dangerous.

So, yes i absolutely support separate days for bikes. more fun and safety for all. What can be wrong with that ?

[ellisd82]

samoht said:

I wouldn't expect (or accept) mixed car/bike trackdays on UK tracks - they're always, rightly, separate.

So I'm not sure why this would be controversial at the 'Ring.

My thoughts exactly. I have never been to the Ring, but I always thought it was the case that bikes and cars only mix on the odd days. An all access run what you bring style.
I think the car drivers would be complaining because some people just like to complain and feel they are some how incensed by the issue.