Does budget = rubbish?
Discussion
kambites said:
BritishRacinGrin said:
Personally if the tyres are well reviewed elsewhere I wouldn't be put off by the fact they're Nankangs.
PH is the epitome of all things badge snobbish. Read objective reviews, there are plenty out there.
I have absolutely no doubt that there are a few folk on here who are perfectly able to tell me if a tyre they've used is any good, or not. Whether I choose to take said advice is down to me but even being able to get a general consensus is helpful.
I understand Nangkang getting the slating they do, although I'm unsure what percentage is down to the actual tyre as opposed to the "stanced", "slammed and/or "drift" groups that tend to favour them? I had Sunny's on slave wheels for my old e30 track car and whilst I wouldn't use them on circuit, they were perfectly reasonable for road use. (Flame suit on!)
Anyway, am off to see how these Toyo are now that the sun is out and the roads are dry?!
I understand Nangkang getting the slating they do, although I'm unsure what percentage is down to the actual tyre as opposed to the "stanced", "slammed and/or "drift" groups that tend to favour them? I had Sunny's on slave wheels for my old e30 track car and whilst I wouldn't use them on circuit, they were perfectly reasonable for road use. (Flame suit on!)
Anyway, am off to see how these Toyo are now that the sun is out and the roads are dry?!
It amazes me people spend 1000's on brakes, suspension, tuning & then skimp on tyres, so all of the hard work & expense of modifying or buying a fast car is wasted as the car won't steer, grip, brake or accelerate as well as it could do.
There is no badge snobbery here, just fit the very best tyres you can.
There is no badge snobbery here, just fit the very best tyres you can.
kambites said:
The question is how to know what tyres are the best. Price is not the same as quality.
Experience and Googling gets you a long way.I recently bought a Forester 2.5XT he'd modified it and fitted 18's but then bought the cheapest tyres available - they were ok in the dry but the point about the Forester is it's supposed to be fast in all weather.
I changed them to Conti Sport 3 they do very well in all tests - I'm very happy with the results.
I think the problem is that it's not something that you can easily try out before buying, unless you have a friendly mate with a similar car running them.
A Nankang whatever may well be a wonderful tyre, but if you're not sure, you either have to have faith in the reviews/online opinions, take the risk, or stick with what you know.
Let's take something fairly "normal", like 225/45R17. An NS2R or 595RSR is about £100 a corner, an R1R or 888 is about £150-£170.
I can understand people spending the extra money, being out £400 for a set of tyres that turn out to be crap is a lot worse than ~£650 for ones that you already know are really good. Can't say I'd blame someone from being a bit leery of spending the money when there's a hell of a lot of people - utterly wrong or not - saying "lol, ditchfinders mate".
A Nankang whatever may well be a wonderful tyre, but if you're not sure, you either have to have faith in the reviews/online opinions, take the risk, or stick with what you know.
Let's take something fairly "normal", like 225/45R17. An NS2R or 595RSR is about £100 a corner, an R1R or 888 is about £150-£170.
I can understand people spending the extra money, being out £400 for a set of tyres that turn out to be crap is a lot worse than ~£650 for ones that you already know are really good. Can't say I'd blame someone from being a bit leery of spending the money when there's a hell of a lot of people - utterly wrong or not - saying "lol, ditchfinders mate".
kambites said:
Agreed but the OP asked if budget tyres were always crap. The answer is "no". They're just usually crap.
I've yet to see a poor review of the tyre he's asking about from someone who's used it.
That's the thing isn't it? People that have used a tyre give good reports yet, those that haven't, refuse to believe it.I've yet to see a poor review of the tyre he's asking about from someone who's used it.
In case I wasn't clear originally, I wasn't seeking to cut corners or get away with spending the minimum amount on tyres. I simply have a limited budget and wondered if some of the more affordable options, such as the Nangkang, were worthy of consideration? Especially given that the NS2R is a control tyre in some race series.
I used to think Pirelli were great till I tried P6000! They made part worn Linglongs look awesome!
HannsG said:
In my opinion on an M3. Yes....it does....
I don't think you should compromise on a car like that. I have P-zeros on mine at the moment. And they are really s
t tyres on my M3. Can't wait to get them changed when time allows!
Sorry, it does what?I don't think you should compromise on a car like that. I have P-zeros on mine at the moment. And they are really s
t tyres on my M3. Can't wait to get them changed when time allows!Given the stock tyre on my M3 was a 205/55r15 I don't feel I've compromised the performance of my car at all. I run Dunlop Direzza rears (245/40r17) and they offer phenomenal grip. As previously stated, I've just fitted Toyo R1R up front. (235/40r17) and having put a few miles on them earlier today, they seem perfectly acceptable. I didn't find them quite as good as the Kuhmo they replaced but I hope I'll just get used to the slight difference in feel? When the time comes to replace the Dunlop on the rear, I may well opt for the Toyo again.
HannsG said:
In my opinion on an M3. Yes....it does....
I don't think you should compromise on a car like that. I have P-zeros on mine at the moment. And they are really st tyres on my M3. Can't wait to get them changed when time allows!
See, I have P-zeros on my 911 turbo & my M3, and my 530d, I think they are great tyres! I don't think you should compromise on a car like that. I have P-zeros on mine at the moment. And they are really s
t tyres on my M3. Can't wait to get them changed when time allows!A lot of tyre performance is subjective, something that allows a 0.5 sec a lap faster and stops 2m faster when driven in controlled conditions by a pro isn't really indicative of real world performance, that tyre might have a very sudden breakaway on the limit, or a particular handling characteristic that makes it harder to drive for the average Joe?
Personally I quite like the P-zeros as they give great steering feel & have a very progressive break away, but it's largely down to individual preference as the premium tyres are all very good.
Worst tyres I ever used were Avons, quite an expensive tyre, but when fitted to my Sierra cossie (years ago) it turned the car from a nice to drive well mannered rear drive chassis into a bouncy horrible mess that felt like the car had a hinge in the middle, such was the nature of the tyres very soft sidewall.
RWD cossie wil said:
See, I have P-zeros on my 911 turbo & my M3, and my 530d, I think they are great tyres!
A lot of tyre performance is subjective, something that allows a 0.5 sec a lap faster and stops 2m faster when driven in controlled conditions by a pro isn't really indicative of real world performance, that tyre might have a very sudden breakaway on the limit, or a particular handling characteristic that makes it harder to drive for the average Joe?
Personally I quite like the P-zeros as they give great steering feel & have a very progressive break away, but it's largely down to individual preference as the premium tyres are all very good.
Worst tyres I ever used were Avons, quite an expensive tyre, but when fitted to my Sierra cossie (years ago) it turned the car from a nice to drive well mannered rear drive chassis into a bouncy horrible mess that felt like the car had a hinge in the middle, such was the nature of the tyres very soft sidewall.
I guess that's another consideration? The dynamics of one cars chassis over another, will effect the characteristic of that same tyre.A lot of tyre performance is subjective, something that allows a 0.5 sec a lap faster and stops 2m faster when driven in controlled conditions by a pro isn't really indicative of real world performance, that tyre might have a very sudden breakaway on the limit, or a particular handling characteristic that makes it harder to drive for the average Joe?
Personally I quite like the P-zeros as they give great steering feel & have a very progressive break away, but it's largely down to individual preference as the premium tyres are all very good.
Worst tyres I ever used were Avons, quite an expensive tyre, but when fitted to my Sierra cossie (years ago) it turned the car from a nice to drive well mannered rear drive chassis into a bouncy horrible mess that felt like the car had a hinge in the middle, such was the nature of the tyres very soft sidewall.
Ideally I would run 16" wheels on my M3 but the inflated cost, over the more common 16", is tough to do on my budget.
Well a few miles in and the Toyo R1R have actually acquitted themselves pretty well. They felt quite different to the Kumho I had been running up front, but the Toyo actually have more grip. I run Dunlop rears, which are NLA, but I got a lucky break today and snagged a pair of 245/40x17 Toyo r888's to replace them. They usually cost £199 each but I paid £150. The combination of Kumho fronts and Dunlop rears worked really well and I'm hoping the combination of R1R front and 888 rears works the same? I'm sure they'll certainly be better in wet weather, where I always found 888's struggled in heavier rain or standing water. Time will tell I guess?
I wouldn't run that combination personally. I thought the whole point of this thread was to find you a tyre which you could match front and rear? What you have now are two tyres with fairly different water clearance and warm-up characteristics. I'd expect this to lead to unpredictable balance in extremes of conditions i.e. cold or wet.
Of course what'll probably happen is you'll bump this thread in a few months to say that you haven't died in a ball of flames yet and therefore, by your measure, they're fine
Of course what'll probably happen is you'll bump this thread in a few months to say that you haven't died in a ball of flames yet and therefore, by your measure, they're fine
BritishRacinGrin said:
I wouldn't run that combination personally. I thought the whole point of this thread was to find you a tyre which you could match front and rear? What you have now are two tyres with fairly different water clearance and warm-up characteristics. I'd expect this to lead to unpredictable balance in extremes of conditions i.e. cold or wet.
Of course what'll probably happen is you'll bump this thread in a few months to say that you haven't died in a ball of flames yet and therefore, by your measure, they're fine
I take your point but I was previously running a similar set up with a combination of Kumho & Dunlop which worked really well. My Kumho also had a better / more suitable wet weather tread pattern with the wider Dunlop rear, having little in the way of a tread pattern. I know a fair bit of time was invested to find a combination that worked (by previous people who ran the car) and I found it to handle really nicely, with plenty and grip, good balance and very predictable on the limit. Of course what'll probably happen is you'll bump this thread in a few months to say that you haven't died in a ball of flames yet and therefore, by your measure, they're fine
I haven't fitted the new rears yet but my reasoning was that they have the same characteristics as the Dunlop they'll replace and share the same compound as the Toyo fronts, although I imagine the differing tread patterns will afford a slight difference in warm up. Obviously, running wider rears on a RWD car there will most likely be a difference in the time the tyres take to warm up anyway. Would that not be true were I to run the same tyre front & rear?
Were I not open to advice and suggestion I wouldn't ask. Mind you, neither would I blindly accept the first opinions offered either.
Edited by e21Mark on Saturday 9th August 07:35
BritishRacinGrin said:
The Dunlops had a lot more tread than the r888s which are cut slick trackday tyres. Also are you sure the r888s are the same compound as the R1Rs, this seems unusual to me.
Bear in mind there are at least 2 compounds of R888 ( or used to be at least )The R1Rs I've had are a harder compound than the 888s I had ( which were the softer ones ( but extremely noisy on rough surfaces ))
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