Keep left on the motorway?
Discussion
gavsdavs said:
I drove down the A13 to Basildon from London this morning and the people of Essex have some terrible habits.
- People going straight to the outside lane and then not noticing someone approaching them moving faster. Example driver went from l1 to l3 as it widens from 2-3 lanes travelling at 40mph, I was travelling at 50mph. Still in average speed camera zone. The sin here is not using their mirrors and lack of awareness. Inside lanes empty.
- People moving out of an empty lane (middle to l3) to prevent someone passing. This was wilful obstruction, they saw me coming and moved into my lane to block me.
- People who absolutely and totally believe that the outside lane is the place they need to be to move fastest. Was tailgated by a ford galaxy at 70, created a gap of 100 yards and moved into inner lane. He came past at 100+ and tailgated his next victim braking on arrival to a gap of about 5 yards. As he slowed I maintained the same speed and caught him up, moved out to pass a slower moving car. Inner lane goes clear, but galaxy stayed put in the outside lane despite requiring a tailwind and a hill to gain speed. Never comes out of the outside lane, even though the inner lane was largely free.
I used to dislike undertaking but I've come to think of it as the least stressful way of using the motorways. This is usually the emptiest lane. In busy conditions just pick a speed and sit at it, just under the nsl and keep your eyes open for any signs of movement from the sleeping people in l2. You generally get the best visibility, can maintain the speed and generally aren't affected by tailgaters.
I don't know how to get people to move left by default and only use a right hand lane to pass, then move back in again. Traffic volumes don't help, but there's an attitude (especially in the southeast) which needs fixing.
I remember one memorable occasion some years ago when I went from M25 J4 to Wakefield on the Thursday afternoon/evening prior to the Easter Bank Holiday weekend. As you can imagine the traffic was horrendous. I drove the ENTIRE motorway mileage in Lane 1 and arrived 25 minutes earlier than my mate in his M3 who preferred the 'BMW lane'. - People going straight to the outside lane and then not noticing someone approaching them moving faster. Example driver went from l1 to l3 as it widens from 2-3 lanes travelling at 40mph, I was travelling at 50mph. Still in average speed camera zone. The sin here is not using their mirrors and lack of awareness. Inside lanes empty.
- People moving out of an empty lane (middle to l3) to prevent someone passing. This was wilful obstruction, they saw me coming and moved into my lane to block me.
- People who absolutely and totally believe that the outside lane is the place they need to be to move fastest. Was tailgated by a ford galaxy at 70, created a gap of 100 yards and moved into inner lane. He came past at 100+ and tailgated his next victim braking on arrival to a gap of about 5 yards. As he slowed I maintained the same speed and caught him up, moved out to pass a slower moving car. Inner lane goes clear, but galaxy stayed put in the outside lane despite requiring a tailwind and a hill to gain speed. Never comes out of the outside lane, even though the inner lane was largely free.
I used to dislike undertaking but I've come to think of it as the least stressful way of using the motorways. This is usually the emptiest lane. In busy conditions just pick a speed and sit at it, just under the nsl and keep your eyes open for any signs of movement from the sleeping people in l2. You generally get the best visibility, can maintain the speed and generally aren't affected by tailgaters.
I don't know how to get people to move left by default and only use a right hand lane to pass, then move back in again. Traffic volumes don't help, but there's an attitude (especially in the southeast) which needs fixing.
He arrived properly stressed out whereas I was wasn't. He refused to believe that I had been waiting for him for nearly half an hour until I told him to ask the hotel receptionist what time I had checked in!
There are several sections of the motorway network where it is almost invariably quicker and less stressful to use Lane 1 which is nearly empty while all the MLM sheeple with tunnel vision drive in lane 2 and the rest wear out their brake pads in Lane 3.
Red Devil said:
I remember one memorable occasion some years ago when I went from M25 J4 to Wakefield on the Thursday afternoon/evening prior to the Easter Bank Holiday weekend. As you can imagine the traffic was horrendous. I drove the ENTIRE motorway mileage in Lane 1 and arrived 25 minutes earlier than my mate in his M3 who preferred the 'BMW lane'.
He arrived properly stressed out whereas I was wasn't. He refused to believe that I had been waiting for him for nearly half an hour until I told him to ask the hotel receptionist what time I had checked in!
There are several sections of the motorway network where it is almost invariably quicker and less stressful to use Lane 1 which is nearly empty while all the MLM sheeple with tunnel vision drive in lane 2 and the rest wear out their brake pads in Lane 3.
The inconvenient issue of lane 1 more often than not being infested with trucks limited to 56 mph at best often less makes lane 1 a no go area.Unless you're happy running at truck type speeds and/or getting boxed in behind them on a regular basis by crawling traffic in lane 2.Even in relative lane discipline utopia Germany when trucks,or other slow traffic in lane 1 is involved to any significant degree,then it's still a case of staying out in lane/s 2 and/or 3 in most cases.The difference being that at least the unlimited speed regime allows that without as many issues of holding anyone up or being held up severely.Because,unlike here the issue of overtaking traffic being subject to UK type motorway speed limits doesn't apply.As for the limited sections the usual problems of bunching and clogged overtaking lanes often applies just the same in that case. He arrived properly stressed out whereas I was wasn't. He refused to believe that I had been waiting for him for nearly half an hour until I told him to ask the hotel receptionist what time I had checked in!
There are several sections of the motorway network where it is almost invariably quicker and less stressful to use Lane 1 which is nearly empty while all the MLM sheeple with tunnel vision drive in lane 2 and the rest wear out their brake pads in Lane 3.
CambsBill said:
It's truly depressing what has happened to driving standards in the country over the last 20 years. Just arrived back from a week driving around Germany, Switzerland, Luxemburg, Belgium and France and the motorway/dual carriageway lane discipline I saw in every one of them was far better than in the UK. With only a few exceptions traffic was at or below the speed limit and most of the time the bulk was in the right-hand lanes, only moving over to overtake.
What's gone wrong in the UK????
Bus lanes. They've indoctrinated drivers never to use the left lane. It's a habit that stays with them on motorways. What's gone wrong in the UK????
XJ Flyer said:
The inconvenient issue of lane 1 more often than not being infested with trucks limited to 56 mph at best often less makes lane 1 a no go area.Unless you're happy running at truck type speeds and/or getting boxed in behind them on a regular basis by crawling traffic in lane 2.Even in relative lane discipline utopia Germany when trucks,or other slow traffic in lane 1 is involved to any significant degree,then it's still a case of staying out in lane/s 2 and/or 3 in most cases.The difference being that at least the unlimited speed regime allows that without as many issues of holding anyone up or being held up severely.Because,unlike here the issue of overtaking traffic being subject to UK type motorway speed limits doesn't apply.As for the limited sections the usual problems of bunching and clogged overtaking lanes often applies just the same in that case.
Hang on, are you saying "I won't use lane 1 because trucks use it and they do 56mph" ?If you are, you're part of the problem. If you're not, I don't understand what you're trying to say.
You're supposed to default to the left and move out when needed. Granted, this requires a bit more forethought and concentration than simply using the slumber lane.
Speed isn't the problem, I'd say sheer volume and driver discipline are. Most people seem to want to drive using the minimum of concentration. THAT's the problem.
Blakewater said:
People have talked about restricting new drivers to below certain speeds and keeping them off motorways, which seems rather silly as plenty are competent and, after spending a couple of years or so being singled out on the road and bullied for being slow newbies, they'll be heading out onto motorways with no experience of using them or of driving at speed.
I wonder if we could have a two tier licence system. You get a licence for proving yourself competent and safe but, if you want to venture onto motorways and drive after dark or do anything more dangerous than dither round town you have to pass a more advanced test. People who only do local driving need not bother and everybody else is obliged to get some proper lessons on what to do.
We also need to change the attitude people have to driving so it becomes something people take pride in doing well and are too embarrassed to do badly. It's an important life skill, like using a computer, so not knowing how to use a motorway properly should be seen as equally foolish to not knowing how to use Microsoft Office. You learn it or you're an idiot rather than thinking it doesn't matter or it's a laugh and a joke being a bad driver.
I do not think it is anything to do with new drivers or not in the test etc (though I think that if you are to drive on it, there is a practical test). It boils down to one or three reason. Don't care, don't know and some that should not be let loose with s blunt spoon let alone a car.I wonder if we could have a two tier licence system. You get a licence for proving yourself competent and safe but, if you want to venture onto motorways and drive after dark or do anything more dangerous than dither round town you have to pass a more advanced test. People who only do local driving need not bother and everybody else is obliged to get some proper lessons on what to do.
We also need to change the attitude people have to driving so it becomes something people take pride in doing well and are too embarrassed to do badly. It's an important life skill, like using a computer, so not knowing how to use a motorway properly should be seen as equally foolish to not knowing how to use Microsoft Office. You learn it or you're an idiot rather than thinking it doesn't matter or it's a laugh and a joke being a bad driver.
XJ Flyer said:
The inconvenient issue of lane 1 more often than not being infested with trucks limited to 56 mph at best often less makes lane 1 a no go area.Unless you're happy running at truck type speeds and/or getting boxed in behind them on a regular basis by crawling traffic in lane 2.Even in relative lane discipline utopia Germany when trucks,or other slow traffic in lane 1 is involved to any significant degree,then it's still a case of staying out in lane/s 2 and/or 3 in most cases.The difference being that at least the unlimited speed regime allows that without as many issues of holding anyone up or being held up severely.Because,unlike here the issue of overtaking traffic being subject to UK type motorway speed limits doesn't apply.As for the limited sections the usual problems of bunching and clogged overtaking lanes often applies just the same in that case.
And explain how that makes any sense on a dead section of motorway late at night?darren f said:
Indeed, but on the off chance that it was you (apols if not) who blasted up L1 Inside (admittedly slowly overtaking traffic) in L2 with a speed differential of circa 20-30mph and then stuck your right hand indicator on when getting to the slow lorry in L1, please refrain from doing so in future. I'd like to get to work without the delay of driving through the debris of your accident when someone inevitably side swipes you. There is 'making progress' and there's driving like an impatient d
head.
Admittedly this bit (2L) of the M11 is notorious for poor lane discipline. It is very easy to be in L2 making legitimate overtakes when a wagon in L1 ahead moves out to do an 'elephant race' overtake. Usual practice is to stick with it in L2 and wait your turn, but then increasing numbers behind do the same. Hence the 'constantly braking morons'. I guess this section really needs an 'HGV No Overtaking' restriction at peak times- ISTR this was tried on the A14 Huntigdon -Cambridge section, does it improve matters there?
Nope not me. head.Admittedly this bit (2L) of the M11 is notorious for poor lane discipline. It is very easy to be in L2 making legitimate overtakes when a wagon in L1 ahead moves out to do an 'elephant race' overtake. Usual practice is to stick with it in L2 and wait your turn, but then increasing numbers behind do the same. Hence the 'constantly braking morons'. I guess this section really needs an 'HGV No Overtaking' restriction at peak times- ISTR this was tried on the A14 Huntigdon -Cambridge section, does it improve matters there?
Edited by darren f on Saturday 2nd August 21:55
I find no problem travelling in L1 and 'making progress'.
The art of drivin is to see what is 3 to 4 hundreds yards ahead and plan well in advance, and not worry about what is 6ft in front of you as most people seem to do.
So its see lorry ahead. check rear view mirror and indicate, when gap arives, or you get on ok from the driver in l2 to move over do so, quickly and get back into L1 when possible.
The art of drivin is to see what is 3 to 4 hundreds yards ahead and plan well in advance, and not worry about what is 6ft in front of you as most people seem to do.
So its see lorry ahead. check rear view mirror and indicate, when gap arives, or you get on ok from the driver in l2 to move over do so, quickly and get back into L1 when possible.
jmorgan said:
Blakewater said:
People have talked about restricting new drivers to below certain speeds and keeping them off motorways, which seems rather silly as plenty are competent and, after spending a couple of years or so being singled out on the road and bullied for being slow newbies, they'll be heading out onto motorways with no experience of using them or of driving at speed.
I wonder if we could have a two tier licence system. You get a licence for proving yourself competent and safe but, if you want to venture onto motorways and drive after dark or do anything more dangerous than dither round town you have to pass a more advanced test. People who only do local driving need not bother and everybody else is obliged to get some proper lessons on what to do.
We also need to change the attitude people have to driving so it becomes something people take pride in doing well and are too embarrassed to do badly. It's an important life skill, like using a computer, so not knowing how to use a motorway properly should be seen as equally foolish to not knowing how to use Microsoft Office. You learn it or you're an idiot rather than thinking it doesn't matter or it's a laugh and a joke being a bad driver.
I do not think it is anything to do with new drivers or not in the test etc (though I think that if you are to drive on it, there is a practical test). It boils down to one or three reason. Don't care, don't know and some that should not be let loose with s blunt spoon let alone a car.I wonder if we could have a two tier licence system. You get a licence for proving yourself competent and safe but, if you want to venture onto motorways and drive after dark or do anything more dangerous than dither round town you have to pass a more advanced test. People who only do local driving need not bother and everybody else is obliged to get some proper lessons on what to do.
We also need to change the attitude people have to driving so it becomes something people take pride in doing well and are too embarrassed to do badly. It's an important life skill, like using a computer, so not knowing how to use a motorway properly should be seen as equally foolish to not knowing how to use Microsoft Office. You learn it or you're an idiot rather than thinking it doesn't matter or it's a laugh and a joke being a bad driver.
Obviously the attitude to bad driving has to change in society. It being something that the powers that be tell you off for and fine you for doesn't work. It needs to be something that society doesn't accept so you lose social kudos for it because image and ego is what people care about. Of course, practical lessons and a test will help as well but the concept of keeping left when not overtaking applies to dual carriageways as well and learners can go on those now.
vonhosen said:
calibrax said:
And before you get all pedantic and say :
"there's no specific offence of 'lane hogging', it comes under 'careless driving'"
...that's like saying...
"there's no specific offence of 'killing people', it comes under 'murder' or 'manslaughter'"...
It's possible to kill people & it not be an offence."there's no specific offence of 'lane hogging', it comes under 'careless driving'"
...that's like saying...
"there's no specific offence of 'killing people', it comes under 'murder' or 'manslaughter'"...
If you commit murder it will be an offence.
Similarly it's possible to be in lane 2 with space to your left & it not be an offence, but careless driving will be an offence.
Being in lane 2 with a space to your left is not enough on it's own to be an offence (it's not legislated for specifically like exceeding a speed limit limit is). there has to be something extra about the circumstances themselves that makes it come under Sec 3 RTA (it won't always do so).
Now, where's calibration gone?
gavsdavs said:
XJ Flyer said:
The inconvenient issue of lane 1 more often than not being infested with trucks limited to 56 mph at best often less makes lane 1 a no go area.Unless you're happy running at truck type speeds and/or getting boxed in behind them on a regular basis by crawling traffic in lane 2.Even in relative lane discipline utopia Germany when trucks,or other slow traffic in lane 1 is involved to any significant degree,then it's still a case of staying out in lane/s 2 and/or 3 in most cases.The difference being that at least the unlimited speed regime allows that without as many issues of holding anyone up or being held up severely.Because,unlike here the issue of overtaking traffic being subject to UK type motorway speed limits doesn't apply.As for the limited sections the usual problems of bunching and clogged overtaking lanes often applies just the same in that case.
Hang on, are you saying "I won't use lane 1 because trucks use it and they do 56mph" ?If you are, you're part of the problem. If you're not, I don't understand what you're trying to say.
You're supposed to default to the left and move out when needed. Granted, this requires a bit more forethought and concentration than simply using the slumber lane.
Speed isn't the problem, I'd say sheer volume and driver discipline are. Most people seem to want to drive using the minimum of concentration. THAT's the problem.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBxdYiSQ0Mg
By your logic how do you differentiate between the correct procedure in the case of multiple overtakes.As I said in this case being the common scenario of lane 1 being infested with slow moving trucks and other traffic all running below 60 mph.I'd say that staying out in lane 2 in that case often shows the difference between the use of good planning ahead.As opposed to the type of muppets who try to take the idea of lane discipline to the opposite extreme of returning to lane 1,or expecting someone to return to lane 1,when it's obvious that it is actually a continuous multiple overtake situation which can often be a continuous issue over miles.In general the UK's problems are similar to those of the States in which it's mostly the excessively low motorway speed speed limit backing up and clogging the 'overtaking lanes' which is the problem.
While even the example in the video eventually inevitably ending up in such a situation having resorted to a pointless undertaking exercise when lane 3 was obviously the correct lane to use regardless of the issue of lane hogging going on in lane 2.
Is it just me or does this problem always seem worse at this time of year? It's bad enough most of the time but during school holidays i always think it gets worse.
Never ceases to amaze me on a 3 or 4 lane motorway i can happily be bumbling along in the lorry at 56mph in lane 1, lane 2 is often quite empty and lane 3 has a long line of these idiots mentioned in this topic.
Stupid, clueless fools.
Never ceases to amaze me on a 3 or 4 lane motorway i can happily be bumbling along in the lorry at 56mph in lane 1, lane 2 is often quite empty and lane 3 has a long line of these idiots mentioned in this topic.
Stupid, clueless fools.
silverfoxcc said:
I find no problem travelling in L1 and 'making progress'.
The art of drivin is to see what is 3 to 4 hundreds yards ahead and plan well in advance, and not worry about what is 6ft in front of you as most people seem to do.
So its see lorry ahead. check rear view mirror and indicate, when gap arives, or you get on ok from the driver in l2 to move over do so, quickly and get back into L1 when possible.
In the real world that idea is more often a recipe for getting boxed in behind slow moving traffic in lane 1 by traffic running in lane 2.In general you're not going to get 3 to 4 hundred yard seperation distances between vehicles in lane 1.Let alone the type of seperation distances required to maintain 70 mph between returning to lane 1 and having to pull out again to overtake the next lumbering 56 mph or less truck etc in lane 1. The art of drivin is to see what is 3 to 4 hundreds yards ahead and plan well in advance, and not worry about what is 6ft in front of you as most people seem to do.
So its see lorry ahead. check rear view mirror and indicate, when gap arives, or you get on ok from the driver in l2 to move over do so, quickly and get back into L1 when possible.
chilistrucker said:
Is it just me or does this problem always seem worse at this time of year? It's bad enough most of the time but during school holidays i always think it gets worse.
Never ceases to amaze me on a 3 or 4 lane motorway i can happily be bumbling along in the lorry at 56mph in lane 1, lane 2 is often quite empty and lane 3 has a long line of these idiots mentioned in this topic.
Stupid, clueless fools.
There can be a number of causes of that problem sometimes a lane hogger at the front of the line to more often the situation of trying to crawl past something ahead in lane 2 without exceeding the ridiculous 70 mph limit and being caught by others who don't care about the speed limit and who think that there's no penalty for getting caught at 80 mph +.Never ceases to amaze me on a 3 or 4 lane motorway i can happily be bumbling along in the lorry at 56mph in lane 1, lane 2 is often quite empty and lane 3 has a long line of these idiots mentioned in this topic.
Stupid, clueless fools.
In general the issue is the contradiction between 2 or 3 overtaking lanes all limited to just 70 mph.While the ridiculous truck limit just adds to the problems.
jmorgan said:
Speed limit has nothing to do with it. Been managing to work within it for years. Raise the limit and you will still have knuckle heads.
Which leaves the inconvenient question is this an example of lane hogging on the part of the Mercedes driver ( answer no ).Would it be if he slowed down to 70 mph max for whatever reason ( answer yes ).
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBxdYiSQ0Mg
I do this ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the time.
I LOVE looking at peoples faces as I go by at a steady pace on the inside lane...
To say they are shocked is an understatment - its as if their brain can't comprehend the fact that someone in the "slow lane" is overtaking them when they are in the overtaking lane.
fking priceless
bunch of assholes
Strangely enough I go in this lane because the idiots in the middle and outside lane constantly try to bum each other and end up harsh braking and then accelerating - Just very annoying.
I LOVE looking at peoples faces as I go by at a steady pace on the inside lane...
To say they are shocked is an understatment - its as if their brain can't comprehend the fact that someone in the "slow lane" is overtaking them when they are in the overtaking lane.
f
king pricelessbunch of assholes
Strangely enough I go in this lane because the idiots in the middle and outside lane constantly try to bum each other and end up harsh braking and then accelerating - Just very annoying.
I have sometimes used the European method, not on motorways but on 2 lane dual carriageways when the car ahead is the only car in sight but in the outer lane. Up behind them flash lights, they wake up and pull over to the inside lane. I overtake, indicate and pull in myself only to see the moron behind pull back out and continue to drive in the outer lane again.
Driving on dual carriageways and motorways must be made compulsory on the driving test.
Driving on dual carriageways and motorways must be made compulsory on the driving test.
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