RE: Range Rover 5.0 Autobiography: PH Fleet
Discussion
Chris Harris said:
Mr Mastodon Farm said:
Is it just me or does this seem a little hostile? I've gotten the sense that Chris is becoming jaded writing for PH as a result of all the flak he receives regarding his personal finances.
I wouldn't hold it against him if he was and I don't think I'd handle it as well as he has. Readers seem far too concerned with finance lately, despite this being an automotive forum. I hope I'm wrong, because I really enjoy Chris' articles.
I'm genuinely perplexed. Can you please explain? I wouldn't hold it against him if he was and I don't think I'd handle it as well as he has. Readers seem far too concerned with finance lately, despite this being an automotive forum. I hope I'm wrong, because I really enjoy Chris' articles.
Chicane-UK said:
I sort of feel that Audi have reached that sort of level too now. They're a brand that a lot of people *aspire to own* (for whatever reason.. not many of their models do a lot for me if I'm honest) and it feels as though they can be quite cavalier with their pricing (in terms of cost of new cars, and servicing, etc) for similar reasons. People want an Audi, and in many cases they'll lease / finance one. And by the time those cars have hit three years old they'll be dumped and moved on, by which time Audi don't need to care about their pricing or reliability.
A friend runs an independent VW/Audi garage and has a car in for a complete rebuild - an Audi A3 though I forget which engine. I think it's a 59 reg, done <50k, one owner who bought it new and always serviced on schedule at the same dealer and basically something to do with the timing gear failed and the engine chewed itself up. Dealer is not interested in any kind of goodwill gesture towards fixing it, and won't even rebuild the existing engine - will only fit a brand new one at some ludicrous cost.
I guess they just don't care because they don't need to, and the handful of customers they lose because of arrogance probably pales into insignificance with the amount of new customers coming on board to buy / lease new ones. Must be a great time to be an Audi dealer.
Outrageous. The customer woes in this thread resemble a 1970s story from British-Leyland. Or Detroit.A friend runs an independent VW/Audi garage and has a car in for a complete rebuild - an Audi A3 though I forget which engine. I think it's a 59 reg, done <50k, one owner who bought it new and always serviced on schedule at the same dealer and basically something to do with the timing gear failed and the engine chewed itself up. Dealer is not interested in any kind of goodwill gesture towards fixing it, and won't even rebuild the existing engine - will only fit a brand new one at some ludicrous cost.
I guess they just don't care because they don't need to, and the handful of customers they lose because of arrogance probably pales into insignificance with the amount of new customers coming on board to buy / lease new ones. Must be a great time to be an Audi dealer.
Thank goodness there are a couple of key differences today. The most prominent of these are on display right here in this thread: the value of word-of-mouth publicity and the power of social media.
Then there's business model disruption. Tesla is leading the luxury-sport category in key markets such as California. What are upmarket brands going to do about that?
Participation in on-demand car-sharing fleets (eg: Zipcar) is on the rise. And travel by taxi is more convenient and affordable via ride sharing services such as Uber and BlaBlaCar. Local Motors is crowdsourcing entire vehicles. And the possibilities of 3D printing could turn upside down the maths on things like personalization and parts.
None of these things is widespread (yet) and each comes with its own set of issues to resolve. But business-as-usual for auto manufacturers is not sustainable.
For every vehicle that is used in a car-sharing fleet, according to one estimate, automobile manufacturers will lose 32 vehicle sales. Wow.
What a crock !
Isn't this a modern RR?, like the new Disco they put the spare wheel UNDER the car, just where it shouldn't be when you get a flat off-road and the car grounds.
Hundreds for a silly hook, how much for a proper rear spare wheel hanger?
That hook costs only a bit less than a perfectly good (new looking) Series One Disco, a delightful tow car.
Recently I had to get 4 new discs plus pads for my Disco, £120 a corner,fitted. The dealer (Split Croatia with factory training) had a modern RR on the next lift and said it had thousands worth of faults to fix, what is going on?
Isn't this a modern RR?, like the new Disco they put the spare wheel UNDER the car, just where it shouldn't be when you get a flat off-road and the car grounds.
Hundreds for a silly hook, how much for a proper rear spare wheel hanger?
That hook costs only a bit less than a perfectly good (new looking) Series One Disco, a delightful tow car.
Recently I had to get 4 new discs plus pads for my Disco, £120 a corner,fitted. The dealer (Split Croatia with factory training) had a modern RR on the next lift and said it had thousands worth of faults to fix, what is going on?
Chicane-UK said:
I sort of feel that Audi have reached that sort of level too now. They're a brand that a lot of people *aspire to own* (for whatever reason.. not many of their models do a lot for me if I'm honest) and it feels as though they can be quite cavalier with their pricing (in terms of cost of new cars, and servicing, etc) for similar reasons. People want an Audi, and in many cases they'll lease / finance one. And by the time those cars have hit three years old they'll be dumped and moved on, by which time Audi don't need to care about their pricing or reliability.
A friend runs an independent VW/Audi garage and has a car in for a complete rebuild - an Audi A3 though I forget which engine. I think it's a 59 reg, done <50k, one owner who bought it new and always serviced on schedule at the same dealer and basically something to do with the timing gear failed and the engine chewed itself up. Dealer is not interested in any kind of goodwill gesture towards fixing it, and won't even rebuild the existing engine - will only fit a brand new one at some ludicrous cost.
I guess they just don't care because they don't need to, and the handful of customers they lose because of arrogance probably pales into insignificance with the amount of new customers coming on board to buy / lease new ones. Must be a great time to be an Audi dealer.
Why did't CH get an Audi RS2, beats all 'soft' SUVs, and modern Rovers are really courting the SUV market, if you want to go off-road (where tyre choice is paramount) then no high speed RR is any good, get a 'classic' or an S1 Disco.A friend runs an independent VW/Audi garage and has a car in for a complete rebuild - an Audi A3 though I forget which engine. I think it's a 59 reg, done <50k, one owner who bought it new and always serviced on schedule at the same dealer and basically something to do with the timing gear failed and the engine chewed itself up. Dealer is not interested in any kind of goodwill gesture towards fixing it, and won't even rebuild the existing engine - will only fit a brand new one at some ludicrous cost.
I guess they just don't care because they don't need to, and the handful of customers they lose because of arrogance probably pales into insignificance with the amount of new customers coming on board to buy / lease new ones. Must be a great time to be an Audi dealer.
rogerhudson said:
Why did't CH get an Audi RS2, beats all 'soft' SUVs, and modern Rovers are really courting the SUV market, if you want to go off-road (where tyre choice is paramount) then no high speed RR is any good, get a 'classic' or an S1 Disco.
He bought a doggy/sheddy S4 that promptly ate the DSG box.http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=179&i=299...
FastRich said:
Chris Harris said:
Have heard back from Guy Salmon Bristol. Putting in a claim under perforation warranty. "We're going for a new tailgate and hopeful it will be approved".
Good work Chris - I guess you have a certain influence! I took mine to (not sure I can mention the name?) a main JLR dealership in Surrey, just off the A3 about halfway between London and Portsmouth with the exact same problem and they basically told me to get lost. The anti corrosion warranty is valid for 6 years but only if the ofending panel rusts from the inside out and only if it's so bad that there's a hole through the metal. We all know that won't happen inside 6 years, not even to one of these tin cars.I complained and got nowhere, it's very disappointing.
The tailgate window rubbers also corroded and are bubbling top and bottom - they're £38 each plus labour and VAT. These aren't covered as they're trim parts.
The car is 4 years old. It cost over £80k new and has always been serviced at LR main dealers.
LR just do not care, or so it seems to me.
Edited by FastRich on Tuesday 5th August 11:57
Pip
Edited by Pip1968 on Tuesday 5th August 18:26
FastRich said:
The tailgate window rubbers also corroded and are bubbling top and bottom - they're £38 each plus labour and VAT. These aren't covered as they're trim parts
Replaced without asking at its two-year service (mentioned some marks on the rear side window trim, which was also replaced, no questions).The rust surely looks like it's had previous paint or damage to go all in one place like that.
Edited by NomduJour on Tuesday 5th August 21:41
It's interesting (and an issue for Land Rover's PR team) that a thread from an article that broadly praises the car - as do the owners I know - has lots of posts about similar situations but with customer service issues. Rust should surely not be an issue on this age of car - if there's the odd case get the car out of the hands of the owner and back on the road fixed ASAP.
More worryingly if Range Rovers this young are visibly rusting, what happens 7 or 10 or even 15 (god forbid!) years down the line? Are they the recent equivalent of merc E classes from the late 90s?!
More worryingly if Range Rovers this young are visibly rusting, what happens 7 or 10 or even 15 (god forbid!) years down the line? Are they the recent equivalent of merc E classes from the late 90s?!
0a said:
It's interesting (and an issue for Land Rover's PR team) that a thread from an article that broadly praises the car - as do the owners I know - has lots of posts about similar situations but with customer service issues. Rust should surely not be an issue on this age of car - if there's the odd case get the car out of the hands of the owner and back on the road fixed ASAP.
More worryingly if Range Rovers this young are visibly rusting, what happens 7 or 10 or even 15 (god forbid!) years down the line? Are they the recent equivalent of merc E classes from the late 90s?!
No idea, but when I px'ed my 2003 car about six months ago (which use essentially the same bodyshell) it was corrosion free.More worryingly if Range Rovers this young are visibly rusting, what happens 7 or 10 or even 15 (god forbid!) years down the line? Are they the recent equivalent of merc E classes from the late 90s?!
It's such a shame to think that theses will be mostly ropey second hand buys in the future with plenty of filler in the arches and tailgates. I had a good look around one of these at a dealer and there was some large corrosion spots on the rear wheel arches and the tailgate was pretty bad. Seems lots of premium brands still can't be bothered to rust proof their cars. Audis of late seem particularly bad and E46 BMWs are a disaster. These will be horrible rust buckets when they are 15-20 years old and will be good for little more than restoration projects - great for Car SOS in the future.
DM525i said:
It's such a shame to think that theses will be mostly ropey second hand buys in the future with plenty of filler in the arches and tailgates. I had a good look around one of these at a dealer and there was some large corrosion spots on the rear wheel arches and the tailgate was pretty bad. Seems lots of premium brands still can't be bothered to rust proof their cars. Audis of late seem particularly bad and E46 BMWs are a disaster. These will be horrible rust buckets when they are 15-20 years old and will be good for little more than restoration projects - great for Car SOS in the future.
This is really tragic when my thousand pound grand cherokee shed doesn't have any rust.Things like this put me off buying a new car, if i paid all that money and it was worse than what i could/have bought 2nd hand i'd be mortified.
Jonny TVR said:
If it makes you feel any better I specified my F10 M5 with a tow bar at a cost of almost £900 as you can't retro fit them and haven't even used it yet after 9 months of ownership. However I have taken great delight in showing anyone who is interested in how it electrically comes out from the underside to show its shiny self
Morning gloryhttp://youtu.be/x9rrRomtKt4
Chris Harris said:
JayUK91 said:
£620 for a tow bar? And you PAID it!?
That's the funniest thing I've read for a while. Saw you coming Harris...
Yes, but it's got a lock and it came in a beautiful foam box!That's the funniest thing I've read for a while. Saw you coming Harris...
rogerhudson said:
What a crock !
Isn't this a modern RR?, like the new Disco they put the spare wheel UNDER the car, just where it shouldn't be when you get a flat off-road and the car grounds.
Hundreds for a silly hook, how much for a proper rear spare wheel hanger?
That hook costs only a bit less than a perfectly good (new looking) Series One Disco, a delightful tow car.
Recently I had to get 4 new discs plus pads for my Disco, £120 a corner,fitted. The dealer (Split Croatia with factory training) had a modern RR on the next lift and said it had thousands worth of faults to fix, what is going on?
It's better than that!Isn't this a modern RR?, like the new Disco they put the spare wheel UNDER the car, just where it shouldn't be when you get a flat off-road and the car grounds.
Hundreds for a silly hook, how much for a proper rear spare wheel hanger?
That hook costs only a bit less than a perfectly good (new looking) Series One Disco, a delightful tow car.
Recently I had to get 4 new discs plus pads for my Disco, £120 a corner,fitted. The dealer (Split Croatia with factory training) had a modern RR on the next lift and said it had thousands worth of faults to fix, what is going on?
I had a flat tyre on our Disco 3 and tried to jack it up with the factory supplied jack and guess what:
It won't go high enough to get the new tyre on!!
Morning folks,
To directly answer a few comments:
Chicane-UK - The dealer I'm visiting now is not the supplying dealer (who have also been looking afer the car), but it shouldn't make a difference. A brand is a brand and a positive, customer focused ethos should be maitained throughout the dealership network, not just from those who can be bothered or, as we're finding out on this thread, the brand begins to crumble.
RogerHudson - you're right about the spare wheel issues on the Disco and RR Sport as they share the same chassis but on the full fat Range Rover the spare is inside the car, under the boot floor.
Pip1968 - Mr Harris's dealership is in Bristol, unfortunately just over 2 hours drive away. I'd like to think my local dealer will react in the same way and offer a solution. Either way, I can't risk driving that far - if it rains I'm afraid my car will dissolve.
NomduJour - that is excellent customer service and exactly what you'd expect from a company who sells such expensive and prestigious items. Which dealership was it?
All these issues aside,I still absolutely love the Rangie.
To directly answer a few comments:
Chicane-UK - The dealer I'm visiting now is not the supplying dealer (who have also been looking afer the car), but it shouldn't make a difference. A brand is a brand and a positive, customer focused ethos should be maitained throughout the dealership network, not just from those who can be bothered or, as we're finding out on this thread, the brand begins to crumble.
RogerHudson - you're right about the spare wheel issues on the Disco and RR Sport as they share the same chassis but on the full fat Range Rover the spare is inside the car, under the boot floor.
Pip1968 - Mr Harris's dealership is in Bristol, unfortunately just over 2 hours drive away. I'd like to think my local dealer will react in the same way and offer a solution. Either way, I can't risk driving that far - if it rains I'm afraid my car will dissolve.
NomduJour - that is excellent customer service and exactly what you'd expect from a company who sells such expensive and prestigious items. Which dealership was it?
All these issues aside,I still absolutely love the Rangie.
UPDATE:
I've just had a call from Land Rover's Bodyshop assessor, he's coming out to me on Tuesday afternoon to take more photos to send to Land Rover warranty department...
Either the photos taken yesterday were rubbish or they're really making a genuine effort. Let's hope it's the latter.
I'll keep the updates coming.
Richard
I've just had a call from Land Rover's Bodyshop assessor, he's coming out to me on Tuesday afternoon to take more photos to send to Land Rover warranty department...
Either the photos taken yesterday were rubbish or they're really making a genuine effort. Let's hope it's the latter.
I'll keep the updates coming.
Richard
Nervously reading this thread - I've had my 08 RR Vogue since new, it's now done 60k miles and hasn't skipped a beat. I normally change my cars way more frequently than this, but just cannot fault the RR. I've been extending the warranty for the last 2 years, but this time around decided against it, as I just feel I've got a good'n.
I'd never heard of the rust issue though, and am itching to get back home and check the boot. I'm sure I would have seen something if there was any rust but hearing that the paint warranty is 6 years, and my car is now 6 years and 5 days old makes me worry.
Like others on here, I absolutely love the car. And when I do sell, I am very likely to get another Range Rover. However, they have to upgrade the sat nav system (which I understand they are doing for MY 2015).
I'd never heard of the rust issue though, and am itching to get back home and check the boot. I'm sure I would have seen something if there was any rust but hearing that the paint warranty is 6 years, and my car is now 6 years and 5 days old makes me worry.
Like others on here, I absolutely love the car. And when I do sell, I am very likely to get another Range Rover. However, they have to upgrade the sat nav system (which I understand they are doing for MY 2015).
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