Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
Chim said:
E65Ross said:
Chim said:
SpeckledJim said:
Umm, yes. It doesn't have them. Does it?
Nor to my knowledge does any other sportscar.
So, no-brainer engineering requirement, or attention grabbing gimmick?
Sorry, your to stupid to argue with Nor to my knowledge does any other sportscar.
So, no-brainer engineering requirement, or attention grabbing gimmick?
Sway said:
Chim said:
Not sure Sway, certainly the marketing department have perhaps embellished the figures over the years, same though applies to the rest of them, willy waving is part of the game
Of course it does, all part of the game.Ferrari have refined the art well beyond most though - their blacklisting of both journalists and owners, etc. Having Fiorano is an awesome benefit too, always a headline figure when a new car comes out, yet about as believable as the Top Gear power board. Top Gear aren't asking for a quarter mill though.
I understand where you're coming from regarding the F12's power to weight - for a GT it's staggering. Do those vents/gouges make as much difference to the overall downforce as they do on the aesthetics - very, very unlikely. It is a very visual statement of how aero is king, which ultimately is marketing.
Even in the unlikely event they make a big difference to the performance, the whole crux was that they assist in making the car ugly - which they do. Purposeful is probably the best that can be attributed to the car, but pretty? No. Too many conflicting shapes that draw the eye all over the place, and prevent any flow to the overall view. Compare to the 456, which has an elegant flow from front to rear, with every highlight supporting that...
Ps, Sorry Chunks, only kidding
Chim said:
Sway said:
Chim said:
Not sure Sway, certainly the marketing department have perhaps embellished the figures over the years, same though applies to the rest of them, willy waving is part of the game
Of course it does, all part of the game.Ferrari have refined the art well beyond most though - their blacklisting of both journalists and owners, etc. Having Fiorano is an awesome benefit too, always a headline figure when a new car comes out, yet about as believable as the Top Gear power board. Top Gear aren't asking for a quarter mill though.
I understand where you're coming from regarding the F12's power to weight - for a GT it's staggering. Do those vents/gouges make as much difference to the overall downforce as they do on the aesthetics - very, very unlikely. It is a very visual statement of how aero is king, which ultimately is marketing.
Even in the unlikely event they make a big difference to the performance, the whole crux was that they assist in making the car ugly - which they do. Purposeful is probably the best that can be attributed to the car, but pretty? No. Too many conflicting shapes that draw the eye all over the place, and prevent any flow to the overall view. Compare to the 456, which has an elegant flow from front to rear, with every highlight supporting that...
Ps, Sorry Chunks, only kidding
AlmostUseful said:
I think it's fair to say that it doesn't matter who says what in these times, all that matters is that he who brings out the "son" wins the argument.
Nothing like a bit of condescension to bring it down to my level!
On this thread I have tried always to reply to any post that was directed to me. Doing that is only right. On the rare occasion when someone appears to be either deliberately obdurate, willfully ignoring reality, or talking in circles, however, it can get tedious. In this case I was giving the poster the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps after the first couple of posts I should have just ignored the rest.Nothing like a bit of condescension to bring it down to my level!
flemke said:
On this thread I have tried always to reply to any post that was directed to me. Doing that is only right. On the rare occasion when someone appears to be either deliberately obdurate, willfully ignoring reality, or talking in circles, however, it can get tedious. In this case I was giving the poster the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps after the first couple of posts I should have just ignored the rest.
Personally, I think you made a fool of yourself. Twice.Chunkymonkey71 said:
Flemke, genuine question.
Has any of the sycophantic fawning on this thread ever creeped you out a bit?
I wouldn't say, "creeped me out". There have been times when something seemed excessive, but I (almost) never know who's posted it. Has any of the sycophantic fawning on this thread ever creeped you out a bit?
That is to say, if it's been posted by a teenager who loves cars, and who thinks (as I did as a teenager) that everything that seems exotic must occupy some elevated plane in the universe which he could not even dream of reaching, then why should we be judgmental of him?
Wrt adults, if PH's "Flemke" were a real flesh-and-blood person, then maybe there would be a point to someone's trying to kiss his butt. Because, instead, this "Flemke" is no more real than the Wizard of Oz, there is nothing for any potential butt-kisser to get from him. To my mind, the absence of that motive changes the dynamics.
In the absence of that motive, my presumption is that any butt-kissing would be done sub-consciously. I can't really blame someone for doing something maladroit if he doesn't even know that he's doing it.
Chunkymonkey71 said:
flemke said:
On this thread I have tried always to reply to any post that was directed to me. Doing that is only right. On the rare occasion when someone appears to be either deliberately obdurate, willfully ignoring reality, or talking in circles, however, it can get tedious. In this case I was giving the poster the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps after the first couple of posts I should have just ignored the rest.
Personally, I think you made a fool of yourself. Twice.To quote Churchill, "So much to do, and so little time in which to do it!"
flemke said:
Chunkymonkey71 said:
flemke said:
On this thread I have tried always to reply to any post that was directed to me. Doing that is only right. On the rare occasion when someone appears to be either deliberately obdurate, willfully ignoring reality, or talking in circles, however, it can get tedious. In this case I was giving the poster the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps after the first couple of posts I should have just ignored the rest.
Personally, I think you made a fool of yourself. Twice.To quote Churchill, "So much to do, and so little time in which to do it!"
Chunkymonkey71 said:
flemke said:
Chunkymonkey71 said:
flemke said:
On this thread I have tried always to reply to any post that was directed to me. Doing that is only right. On the rare occasion when someone appears to be either deliberately obdurate, willfully ignoring reality, or talking in circles, however, it can get tedious. In this case I was giving the poster the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps after the first couple of posts I should have just ignored the rest.
Personally, I think you made a fool of yourself. Twice.To quote Churchill, "So much to do, and so little time in which to do it!"
flemke said:
AlmostUseful said:
I think it's fair to say that it doesn't matter who says what in these times, all that matters is that he who brings out the "son" wins the argument.
Nothing like a bit of condescension to bring it down to my level!
On this thread I have tried always to reply to any post that was directed to me. Doing that is only right. On the rare occasion when someone appears to be either deliberately obdurate, willfully ignoring reality, or talking in circles, however, it can get tedious. In this case I was giving the poster the benefit of the doubt, but perhaps after the first couple of posts I should have just ignored the rest.Nothing like a bit of condescension to bring it down to my level!
You have now followed this with the above, a post that is laden with language in which you are attempting to adopt a superior demeanour and suggesting in essence, that you should have ignored the young miscreant that dared to challenge your position. You have failed miserably and exposed a side that is not pleasant, there are many great debaters here on Ph and I have had the pleasure of sparring with a few of them, they are good because they know when and what to concede and how to counter effectively in order to gain the upper ground. Those that attempt to adopt a superior attitude and resort to patronising and arrogance though fail at every turn.
Will leave you now to your legion of followers and wish you all the best.
evenflow said:
Aaaaanyway, how about that F1, eh?
Flemke, a while back you commented after seeing a picture of your car when in full smurf mode that you'd wondered about lightening the colour up a touch again. Any further thoughts...?
F1?Flemke, a while back you commented after seeing a picture of your car when in full smurf mode that you'd wondered about lightening the colour up a touch again. Any further thoughts...?
Oh, yeah. I'd forgotten about them.
I'm not sure that I understand your question, nor do I recall what I might have said at the time.
I'm happy with the colour it's painted now.
With the previous blue, I expected it to be darker than it turned out to be. Another thing that surprised me was how much the colour changed under different levels of light. Also, the previous colour was not a "clean" colour; it was on the warm side of blue, and I have learned that pretty much every warm blue is not a clean blue. If you want a clean blue, you must go to the cool (towards purple) side of the spectrum.
There are some very pale blues that could look nice on the F1, such as:
I may use that on another car, but I'm keeping the present dark blue on the F1.
I had been reading over the vol4 thread and someone had posted a picture of the car when it was the lighter blue.
flemke said:
Wrt that blue car, yes, I seem to recall it. Your photo is starting to make me ask myself whether I should change the colour back to something less dark. This can be a very slippery slope. Help!
Maybe I missed a very obvious whoosh parrot, but glad you're satisfied with the final result! I'll tell the colour mixing blokes at Homebase to stand down.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff