Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)
Discussion
Monty Python said:
Soov535 said:
I think Mr F said earlier that the P1 was going back to McLaren and a 675LT was coming, or did I imagine that?
IMHO the 675LT is the pick of the range at the moment (in Onyx Black), although I think the cockpit could do with a bit more colour - everything seems to be black or carbon-fibre, although I'm sure if you ask they'll do something different (and charge you extra in the process).
Soov535 said:
Monty Python said:
Soov535 said:
I think Mr F said earlier that the P1 was going back to McLaren and a 675LT was coming, or did I imagine that?
IMHO the 675LT is the pick of the range at the moment, although I think the cockpit could do with a bit more colour - everything seems to be black or carbon-fibre, although I'm sure if you ask they'll do something different (and charge you extra in the process).The 675LT has the looks and the exclusivity, and frnakly pretty ridiculous performance. Although my favourite so far is the 650LM with the roof scoop and the F1 style alloys. If I had the cash I'd be in like a robber's dog.
http://cars.mclaren.com/featured-articles/650s-le-...
Oh to be troubled by such decisions!
Mr f - are you tempted by the 650LM over the 675LT and if not what made your decision. I think the 650LM is sublime.
So you know, the roof scoop should be available as an option on the LT.
ManFromDelmonte said:
Flemke,
Any initial thoughts on the 570S?
Don't know much about it, apart from what's been reported in the general motoring media. Unless it is meaningfully smaller (in dimensions, if not weight) than the standard 650, I can't see myself getting involved. If however it were like a Cayman but with 60% more power, that would be appealing.Any initial thoughts on the 570S?
isaldiri said:
Soov535 said:
1000%.
The 675LT has the looks and the exclusivity, and frnakly pretty ridiculous performance. Although my favourite so far is the 650LM with the roof scoop and the F1 style alloys. If I had the cash I'd be in like a robber's dog.
http://cars.mclaren.com/featured-articles/650s-le-...
Mr f - are you tempted by the 650LM over the 675LT and if not what made your decision. I think the 650LM is sublime.
The LM is just an MSO parts bin special though with a numbered edition plaque stuck on. The 675 represents a lot more engineering underlying the car.The 675LT has the looks and the exclusivity, and frnakly pretty ridiculous performance. Although my favourite so far is the 650LM with the roof scoop and the F1 style alloys. If I had the cash I'd be in like a robber's dog.
http://cars.mclaren.com/featured-articles/650s-le-...
Mr f - are you tempted by the 650LM over the 675LT and if not what made your decision. I think the 650LM is sublime.
CK_N4S said:
flemke said:
Wrt carbon wheels, I'm not sure who makes them now that the original company that made them (Dymag?) has gone out of business. The Dymags had a carbon rim and mag centre. The other day I did see what appeared to be full carbon wheels on a Koenigsegg, but I presume that they are specific to that carmaker.
Regardless, I would not use a carbon rim on a road car. Carbon fibre is a lovely material. However, when aluminium and magnesium reach their failure point they deform, whereas when carbon fibre reaches its failure point it shatters. Although that is probably acceptable on a racing car, to my mind it would not be acceptable on a road car when there may be innocent bystanders exposed to a wheel-less, out-of-control vehicle.
Hi FlemkeRegardless, I would not use a carbon rim on a road car. Carbon fibre is a lovely material. However, when aluminium and magnesium reach their failure point they deform, whereas when carbon fibre reaches its failure point it shatters. Although that is probably acceptable on a racing car, to my mind it would not be acceptable on a road car when there may be innocent bystanders exposed to a wheel-less, out-of-control vehicle.
Just thought I would jump in with some personnel experience on the Dymag wheels.
I have had them on my Boxster for the last 7 year and they still perform brilliantly.
Mine have done more than 200 laps on the Nürburgring over that time, and other trackdays in Scandinavia.
I love the feel of the car in spring when they are returned to the car. The lower unsprung mass gives more urgency to the acceleration and better steering feel.
They have probably done about 35.000 km on my car now, so for your use and mileage on the F1 I would not worry to much about having the carbon rim.
Thank you for your time on this thread, it's very much appreciated.
CK
My main concern with carbon (rims) is that, under too strong or sharp a force, the CF will shatter. I believe that, at least initially with the Dymags, there was also an issue with some kind of corrosive build-up at the interface of the spokes and the rim. I appreciate that your experience with them has been very satisfactory.
I have to admit that the Koenigsegg one-piece version is a fine piece of engineering, and, if a similar thing were on the P1, I'd probably be happy with it.
Out of curiosity, do you know what one of your CF wheels weighs?
flemke said:
Don't know much about it, apart from what's been reported in the general motoring media. Unless it is meaningfully smaller (in dimensions, if not weight) than the standard 650, I can't see myself getting involved. If however it were like a Cayman but with 60% more power, that would be appealing.
Perhaps not unexpectedly being based around the same monocell carbon tub, it's almost exactly the same size as the P11 cars. A touch longer and the same width (2093mm with mirrors) and near as no difference height-wise, weight is very similar around ~1300kg dry as well if I have read correctly. Personally think Mclaren are vastly over-using the same design language from the P1 and I was really hoping as was suggested to me by someone supposed to be in the know that Mclaren were dropping the headlight 'swoosh' from the P13 but it is merely morphed into a blockier variant of the P1 front....
isaldiri said:
flemke said:
Don't know much about it, apart from what's been reported in the general motoring media. Unless it is meaningfully smaller (in dimensions, if not weight) than the standard 650, I can't see myself getting involved. If however it were like a Cayman but with 60% more power, that would be appealing.
Perhaps not unexpectedly being based around the same monocell carbon tub, it's almost exactly the same size as the P11 cars. A touch longer and the same width (2093mm with mirrors) and near as no difference height-wise, weight is very similar around ~1300kg dry as well if I have read correctly. Personally think Mclaren are vastly over-using the same design language from the P1 and I was really hoping as was suggested to me by someone supposed to be in the know that Mclaren were dropping the headlight 'swoosh' from the P13 but it is merely morphed into a blockier variant of the P1 front....
That hurts McLaren exclusivity, but it seems entirely fair for those who would like to have a McLaren but cannot afford to pay £200k or more for a new one. If you look at the number of £140k cars driving around, they appear to be a lot more numerous than the number of £220k cars driving around - probably a factor of 5 if not more.
As for offering cars that look pretty much the same but are at substantially different price points, it seems to work for Aston, Porsche, Merc and BMW.
From a selfish perspective, I'd like there to be more a difference between the models than there is, but I am damn lucky to have access to what I have, and can hardly begrudge it if another person wants some of the same.
flemke said:
You're saying that it's essentially a 650S for 60% of the money and presumably some discount in performance.
That hurts McLaren exclusivity, but it seems entirely fair for those who would like to have a McLaren but cannot afford to pay £200k or more for a new one. If you look at the number of £140k cars driving around, they appear to be a lot more numerous than the number of £220k cars driving around - probably a factor of 5 if not more.
As for offering cars that look pretty much the same but are at substantially different price points, it seems to work for Aston, Porsche, Merc and BMW.
From a selfish perspective, I'd like there to be more a difference between the models than there is, but I am damn lucky to have access to what I have, and can hardly begrudge it if another person wants some of the same.
Was more directing my issue with the styling being overly P1 derived which imo progressively erodes something of the uniqueness of the P1. Expected perhaps given the 650 but still somewhat disappointing nevertheless (and not that I have a P1 either unfortunately!). Works for Aston/Porsche obviously as you noted so perhaps a forlorn hope they would do any different. I did think there would be somewhat more differentiation than has turned out between the P11 and P13 cars.That hurts McLaren exclusivity, but it seems entirely fair for those who would like to have a McLaren but cannot afford to pay £200k or more for a new one. If you look at the number of £140k cars driving around, they appear to be a lot more numerous than the number of £220k cars driving around - probably a factor of 5 if not more.
As for offering cars that look pretty much the same but are at substantially different price points, it seems to work for Aston, Porsche, Merc and BMW.
From a selfish perspective, I'd like there to be more a difference between the models than there is, but I am damn lucky to have access to what I have, and can hardly begrudge it if another person wants some of the same.
Not really too fussed about the exclusivity bit though and it has never been part of the appeal of the 12c although I did think Mclaren were beating that particular drum about 'being exclusive' a bit too hard at the 675 preview....the P13 was always expected at somewhere of the announced price point even back in 2010 when the 12c was launched and I just wish it was smaller and lighter.
isaldiri said:
flemke said:
You're saying that it's essentially a 650S for 60% of the money and presumably some discount in performance.
That hurts McLaren exclusivity, but it seems entirely fair for those who would like to have a McLaren but cannot afford to pay £200k or more for a new one. If you look at the number of £140k cars driving around, they appear to be a lot more numerous than the number of £220k cars driving around - probably a factor of 5 if not more.
As for offering cars that look pretty much the same but are at substantially different price points, it seems to work for Aston, Porsche, Merc and BMW.
From a selfish perspective, I'd like there to be more a difference between the models than there is, but I am damn lucky to have access to what I have, and can hardly begrudge it if another person wants some of the same.
Was more directing my issue with the styling being overly P1 derived which imo progressively erodes something of the uniqueness of the P1. Expected perhaps given the 650 but still somewhat disappointing nevertheless (and not that I have a P1 either unfortunately!). Works for Aston/Porsche obviously as you noted so perhaps a forlorn hope they would do any different. I did think there would be somewhat more differentiation than has turned out between the P11 and P13 cars.That hurts McLaren exclusivity, but it seems entirely fair for those who would like to have a McLaren but cannot afford to pay £200k or more for a new one. If you look at the number of £140k cars driving around, they appear to be a lot more numerous than the number of £220k cars driving around - probably a factor of 5 if not more.
As for offering cars that look pretty much the same but are at substantially different price points, it seems to work for Aston, Porsche, Merc and BMW.
From a selfish perspective, I'd like there to be more a difference between the models than there is, but I am damn lucky to have access to what I have, and can hardly begrudge it if another person wants some of the same.
Not really too fussed about the exclusivity bit though and it has never been part of the appeal of the 12c although I did think Mclaren were beating that particular drum about 'being exclusive' a bit too hard at the 675 preview....the P13 was always expected at somewhere of the announced price point even back in 2010 when the 12c was launched and I just wish it was smaller and lighter.
One point of differentiation in the P13 will be C-pillar flying buttresses, a la 599. I think they work nicely on the 599; we'll have to see about the P13.
F1GTRUeno said:
I presume MSO could make you a 675LT-LM if you asked nicely enough?
LT but with the styling touches added to the LM perhaps?
They wouldn't do the logos. LT but with the styling touches added to the LM perhaps?
Not sure about the paint colour, which may be identical to the grey on the actual F1 GTR (which actually had two different greys), and they may wish to keep it exclusive to the LM model - wouldn't really be fair to LM owners to take away their exclusivity.
I believe they will offer the roof scoop as an option on the LT.
flemke said:
Don't know much about it, apart from what's been reported in the general motoring media. Unless it is meaningfully smaller (in dimensions, if not weight) than the standard 650, I can't see myself getting involved. If however it were like a Cayman but with 60% more power, that would be appealing.
I read that is is actually larger than the 650S.TopGear said:
Though despite the 570S being Woking's cheapest, least powerful model, it's actually 18mm longer and 187mm wider than a 650S.
Quite a bit larger! Doh!Joe911 said:
flemke said:
Don't know much about it, apart from what's been reported in the general motoring media. Unless it is meaningfully smaller (in dimensions, if not weight) than the standard 650, I can't see myself getting involved. If however it were like a Cayman but with 60% more power, that would be appealing.
I read that is is actually larger than the 650S.TopGear said:
Though despite the 570S being Woking's cheapest, least powerful model, it's actually 18mm longer and 187mm wider than a 650S.
Quite a bit larger! Doh!Joe, you're reading the wrong stuff!
flemke said:
Soov535 said:
Monty Python said:
Flemke, do you intend to keep the P1 or replace it with something more "usable"?
I think Mr F said earlier that the P1 was going back to McLaren and a 675LT was coming, or did I imagine that?
Joe911 said:
TopGear said:
Though despite the 570S being Woking's cheapest, least powerful model, it's actually 18mm longer and 187mm wider than a 650S.
Quite a bit larger! Doh!flemke said:
I don't know precisely how wide the P13 is, but there is no way in this world that it is "187mm" (7 inches) wider than the 650S. That is either a typo or the person who wrote that for Top Gear knows even less about cars than their writers usually do.
Joe, you're reading the wrong stuff!
No change there.Joe, you're reading the wrong stuff!
autocar said:
The 570S is slightly larger than the 650S in each key dimension, being 4530mm long, 2095mm wide and 1202mm tall.
though their 650S article does not give those dimensions!The McL site gives these for the 650S - 4512mm long, 2093mm wide (without mirrors I think), 1203mm high (spider).
Basically - bugger all in it.
No idea where TG got their numbers.
It seems the 570S can have DAB too - nice to know it's in their cheapest car, but not their most expensive.
Edited by Joe911 on Wednesday 1st April 10:43
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